fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Radical Edward said in post # :I disagree as a result of the inherent dangers and risks of illegal drugs. so why do they discount the dangers associated with drugs then, which are not present in alcohol, except through really long term sustained usage. People die all the time of drinking too much alcohol on ONE occaison. No one has ever died of an LSD overdose. No one has ever died from a THC overdose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # :Lethal at any time from any dose? I don't suppose you have any numbers for this one either. well I can think of at least 2. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1849496.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/1848638.stm now can we have examples of people who have died from say, one pint of beer, or one cigarette? Let's look at legal DRUGS alcohol and nicotine. Alcoholics have the same amount of choice over their habit as heroin addicts, as well as smokers (I'd be happy cite government studies proving nicotine is more addictive than heroin). it takes a tad more effort to get addicted to alcohol. and so what if nicotine is more addictive than heroin. If anything that is an argument for the criminalisation of cigarettes. Are you aware that 60mg of nicotine is lethal? and how many people take 60mg of nicotine in one go? I have spent entire nights in nightclubs where you can cut the cigarette smoke with a knife, and still haven't managed to take in 60mg of the stuff yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # : People die all the time of drinking too much alcohol on ONE occaison. one dose. i.e. a pint. Note also that it is a criminal offense to serve people who are blind drunk. discount allergies of course, or we might as well outlaw peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 oh, and you didn't answer why people take these particulat illegal drugs despite the inherent dangers and risks. so why do they do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Neither of those articles mention the dose taken, merely that an overdose occured. A heroin overdose is typically 120mg to be fatal, which is quite alot. The argument is that all drugs should be classed the same as alcohol an nicotine, then the same arguments should be applied for the legal status of them all. How many people take 120mg of heroin in one go? And last time I checked, virtually all of the cases of heroin overdose occured either of free will (suicide) or more commonly, the lack of safety of street heroin, which would be reduced drastically if it was legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Radical Edward said in post # :oh, and you didn't answer why people take these particulat illegal drugs despite the inherent dangers and risks. so why do they do it? Why do people smoke? Why do people drink to excess? We're all well aware of the consquences of long-term use, yet people still do it. Why? I'm not saying it's a good idea for most people to try drugs, my argument is that it's THEIR choice, not the governments. I for one use alternatives to alcohol because it's more fun than urinating and vomitting all over the place and feeling like crap the next morning. Not to mention the risk of drinking and driving (differentiation here should be made, some drugs its safe to drive on and others its not (stimulants vs. depressants)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 agreed, I can EAT what I like and have as much SALT or FAT as I like, but they don`t outlaw macdonalds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 surely then by the same token I may assimilate whater other sudstance I wish, even lead or cadmium if I wished to, fact is, I can, the reason I CAN is that they are NOT taxable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 oh well, Leah betts only took one pill, but it doesn't really matter. It is not like either of them sat there all night mashing their heads into oblivion like alcohol deaths. so can we have examples of people who died from smoking a cigarette. hey, even a whole packet, or a pint of beer then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # : I'm not saying it's a good idea for most people to try drugs, my argument is that it's THEIR choice, not the governments. so you are saying that it is a bad idea. Why do you think it is a bad idea, and why would people do something that is a bad idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 One pill of ecstasy? Did they know the composition? I'll bet it wasn't pure MDMA, which is among the dangers of black market distro networks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 does it really matter? the fast is she took it and it killed her, despite the fact that she knew that it may kill her. incidentally, it was a good quality pill. what she died of was drinking too much water to counter the side effects, which then caused her brain to swell, which killed her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 You're still not differentiating from alcohol/tobacco... people know thats a bad idea too. It's a bad idea to try the more addictive drugs if you know you have the potential to get addicted to things (previous problems, other substances, family history)... I know alot more people who have tried drugs without becoming addicted than people who get addicted from the first try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 after a quick buck, and who cares what they do to whom, thats all it`s about, take away the ILEGAL factor, you`ll introduce competition and a better/cleaner quality of drug, AND you`ll take away alot of the "mystery" and secrectiveness of taking them, in effect, the interest won`t be there to take the stuff most kids do it simply because they SHOULDN`T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Radical Edward said in post # :does it really matter? the fast is she took it and it killed her, despite the fact that she knew that it may kill her. incidentally, it was a good quality pill. what she died of was drinking too much water to counter the side effects, which then caused her brain to swell, which killed her. Where does the article say the purity of the pill was determined? She drank herself to death, this is easily preventable. Water intoxication leading to death is not due at all to a direct interation between water and MDMA. If she was EDUCATED about water intoxication from MDMA use, she'd still be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # :You're still not differentiating from alcohol/tobacco... people know thats a bad idea too. It's a bad idea to try the more addictive drugs if you know you have the potential to get addicted to things (previous problems, other substances, family history)... I know alot more people who have tried drugs without becoming addicted than people who get addicted from the first try. alcohol I have already pointed out. You really have to do it to excess to cause alot of damage. Alcoholics are a harder catch, but it is illegal to serve people who are blind drunk, as it should be. I am not differentiating with nicotine at all, I am actually lumping it in with all the rest. Personally I think nicotine needs outlawing too, despite YT2095's rather cool experiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # : Where does the article say the purity of the pill was determined? She drank herself to death, this is easily preventable. Water intoxication leading to death is not due at all to a direct interation between water and MDMA. If she was EDUCATED about water intoxication from MDMA use, she'd still be alive. it says in the coroners report if you want to get hold of it. other people took the same pills and they were fine. Yes drinking herself to death is easily preventable, but that isn't the point either. regardless of how she died, she still knew her death was a possibility due to the dangers of street-bought drugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 and hence the need for the .gov to stop making stupid laws and start EDUCATING these young ones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 the astounding education that has led to the highest level of drug taking and highest level of teenage pregnancy in a long time. oh yes, education is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Radical Edward said in post # : alcohol I have already pointed out. You really have to do it to excess to cause alot of damage. Alcoholics are a harder catch, but it is illegal to serve people who are blind drunk If you think it's hard to drink yourself to death with alcohol, imagine how much water you have to drink to kill yourself lol. One bottle of some alcohols bought from a store will kill you if you drink the whole thing. What about alternative forms of alcohol consumption? Take jello shooters... you get 15 of those made from 190 proof everclear, you'll wind up dead... and eating 15 jello shots is not at all hard to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # : If you think it's hard to drink yourself to death with alcohol, imagine how much water you have to drink to kill yourself lol. One bottle of some alcohols bought from a store will kill you if you drink the whole thing. What about alternative forms of alcohol consumption? Take jello shooters... you get 15 of those made from 190 proof everclear, you'll wind up dead... and eating 15 jello shots is not at all hard to do. fine, ban them too then. I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 anyway, you drifted completely off the point. why do people take these drugs then despite the various risks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 So you think alcohol and tobacco should also be illegal? Because cause health problems as severe or worse than drugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Radical Edward said in post # :anyway, you drifted completely off the point. why do people take these drugs then despite the various risks? Because there is very low risk if you know what you're doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # : Because there is very low risk if you know what you're doing. so health risks are the only risks then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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