Drug War

[fafalone]

Maybe we should start enforcing traffic laws by imprisoning speeders?

 

The punishment should fit the crime, and drug-related punishments are extremely severe.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

Maybe we should start enforcing traffic laws by imprisoning speeders?

 

Start talking about house prices, and I'll get on the phone to fleet street.

[Cheetah]

fafalone said in post # :

Using a substance more than once every 2 weeks on a regular basis is a rough estimate of what should be considered abuse.

I drink Coca-Cola several times a week. That doesn't make it an abuse. Or maybe Coca-Cola isn't included in that estimate? I don't think you can estimate what an abuse is just like that.

[fafalone]

The estimate is for non-medical use of DEA scheduled substances only.

[atinymonkey]

fafalone said in post # :

Unbacked up? Lets see... sentencing patterns, mandatory minumum, prison rape statistics, HIV infection rates among prisons as a result of rape...

 

Which one of those can't be backed up?

 

Well, two quick reasons why the whole prison rape thing can't easily be backed up are:-

 

1) The FBI doesn’t count man on man as rape, which make the US statistics very very low for all male prisons.

 

2) I was under the distinct impression that the whole prison lovin' was an urban myth preserved by then media for entertainment, prisons for deterrents to would be criminals and the prisoner themselves to sell 'protection' to the other inmates.

 

I'd be interested to see any reports that indicated homosexual tendencies increased expedientially the more time you spent in an all male environment. It’s not as if you can catch ‘the gay’ by sharing a toothbrush, you know.

 

Or perhaps you can, I mean I not studying medicine so what do I know?

[fafalone]

Actually I am aware of such a study in mice. All male mice were placed in dense living quarters in hot temperatures and homosexuality was observed, which does not occur in control groups of mice in normal conditions.

[Sayonara]

This seems slightly relevant to the original discussion:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3418219.stm

[fafalone]

A little light on details. Like I've been saying all the long tho, any drug in excess is going to be bad for you. Cannabis is no different.

[Sayonara]

Hmmm, the "related links" bit on the BBC is usually very good.

 

Still, it's topical.

[fafalone]

A shift from class B to class C is definately a step in the right direction tho, be it a small one.

[fafalone]

Here's some ideas we talked about today in my PSY305 - Drugs and Behavior class...

 

Drug USE is safe regardless of the substance, legal or illegal, and defined as using an amount of the drug to achieve the desired effect with low hazard and in the right setting.

 

Drug MISUSE is slightly increased risk, using any drug in a dosage or set/setting that increases risk over the extent of use.

 

Drug ABUSE is repeated misuse or dosages and set/settings that great increase the risk of harm, and is almost exclusively associated in non-social use of drugs (drinking alone, drinking right before a class,...)

 

and of course drug addiction is a psychological or physical dependency on a substance.

 

Our professor also talked about how the people who only use drugs in certain settings such as parties have a very low risk of moving up to abuse and addiction, REGARDLESS of the substance.

 

We also talked about how the drug laws were based on emotional reactions of congress rather than scientific facts about drug, in fact my earlier discussion of nicotine was essentially repeated verbatim in class, and that people are going to use drugs no matter what laws we make, and that HARM REDUCTION, not prohibition and tougher sentencing, is the first step on the road towards prevention of misuse and abuse.

Harm reduction consists of things like needle exchange programs, methadone clinics, teaching SAFE USE, and services like DanceSafe (dancesafe.org, supplies lab results and testing kits for determining ecstasy purity found on the streets).

 

I'll be posting this kind of stuff every tuesday and thursday, because me and the professor of the class seem to be on the exact same page.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

Drug USE is safe regardless of the substance, legal or illegal, and defined as using an amount of the drug to achieve the desired effect with low hazard and in the right setting.

 

So, that rules out drugs like cocaine, heroin, and the like.

[fafalone]

No, it says use of them is safe in the right dose and setting.

[YT2095]

no "drug" or chemical is Inherantly BAD per se.

even snake venom has it`s uses as do other toxins considered lethal, herion is NOT lethal any more that ordinary table salt you put on your food, with the caveat stating in the correct dossage over the correct time frame.

I think anyone that can argue with that point is deluded somewhat

[fafalone]

And as far as side effects from heroin use...

 

Using dirty needles is MISUSE, using lethal doses is ABUSE, and using it outside of the occaisional social setting is MISUSE and eventually becomes abuse and addiction.

[fafalone]

Here's the latest abhorrent drug policy:

 

It's OK for police to arrest everyone in a car that unclaimed drugs are found in when an unreasonable search is conducted. Unreasonable search in the sense that it was a routine traffic stop and there was no reasonable suspicion to suspect there to be drugs.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

And as far as side effects from heroin use...

 

Using dirty needles is MISUSE, using lethal doses is ABUSE, and using it outside of the occaisional social setting is MISUSE and eventually becomes abuse and addiction.

 

I didn't say anything about using dirty needles, lethal doses, or outside of 'occasional social settings'.

 

I take it that you count its enormous capability for physical addiction as 'ok' then?

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

Here's the latest abhorrent drug policy:

 

It's OK for police to arrest everyone in a car that unclaimed drugs are found in when an unreasonable search is conducted. Unreasonable search in the sense that it was a routine traffic stop and there was no reasonable suspicion to suspect there to be drugs.

 

I see nothing wrong with that policy, assuming that the stop and search part of the policy is exactly as it says it is (ie for some other offense).

 

You appear to be arguing that if the police came round to your house for some other reason, they should ignore a corpse sitting at your kitchen table.

[fafalone]

Police do NOT have the right to search you without reasonable suspicion. Seeing a corpse is reasonable suspicion to search the premises.

[fafalone]

MrL_JaKiri said in post # :

 

I didn't say anything about using dirty needles, lethal doses, or outside of 'occasional social settings'.

 

I take it that you count its enormous capability for physical addiction as 'ok' then?

 

Yes because addiction rarely occurs, even with heroin, at the use level. Important to distinguish between use and misuse/abuse here.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

Yes because addiction rarely occurs, even with heroin, at the use level. Important to distinguish between use and misuse/abuse here.

 

So you're saying that the use level is the level at which the side effects don't occur? There wouldn't be much of the intended effect there either, and I call circular reasoning.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

Police do NOT have the right to search you without reasonable suspicion. Seeing a corpse is reasonable suspicion to search the premises.

 

I think it just means that people with illegal drugs in the car shouldn't break the traffic laws.

 

I don't see it as a violation of personal freedom.

[fafalone]

I call lack of scientific knowledge of the subject.

 

The reasoning is that addiction will not occur after one use that is socially motivated. Addiction will occur with misuse and abuse, i.e. using it by yourself and not for social reasons, but to escape problems and negative feelings.

[fafalone]

MrL_JaKiri said in post # :

 

I think it just means that people with illegal drugs in the car shouldn't break the traffic laws.

 

I don't see it as a violation of personal freedom.

 

We have a little thing called the 4th amendment here that states police cannot conduct a search without reasonable suspicion they will find something illegal.

[JaKiri]

fafalone said in post # :

I call lack of scientific knowledge of the subject.

 

The reasoning is that addiction will not occur after one use that is socially motivated. Addiction will occur with misuse and abuse, i.e. using it by yourself and not for social reasons, but to escape problems and negative feelings.

 

So what you're saying is that someone who's perfectly contented, doesn't have any social pressure and takes a low enough level of something that it doesn't have any significant effect won't become addicted?

 

You are, without a doubt, the new Sherlock Holmes.