JaKiri Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 Originally posted by Duster My Earth Science teacher in High Sholl had a theory on that. He said that as the universe ages, it could form a ring as you described. That at that point the whole idea of time and distance would change. You would be able to leve Earth in a craft, travel in a streight line, and exentually end up back at Earth. Interesting idea to entertain. Interesting, yet not exactly allowable. There's a reason that wasn't postulated by a physicist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted July 14, 2003 Share Posted July 14, 2003 I know that his theory was off, even he admited so. However, in my own thoughts I could see the possiblilty of a spherical universe. With this, it might be possible to not be allowed to leave space into what, if anything lays beyond. Some what like the inability to aproach the speed of light. Would it be possible that as you approach the boundrys of the univere, that distance and time become tweeked in such a way as to make a streight line become a curve? This would allow for part of his theory to be correct in that you could choose a starting point near the edge of the universe, travel in a streight line, only to return eventually to the same point. This is entirely speculation. I favor the idea that space was here before the big bang and that it is infinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 Originally posted by Star-struck At any rate, the universe is expanding. Will it reach a certain point where it can' t expand any more and be pulled back to the center? Or...maybe when it reaches that point the center itself will tear and begin to expand itself so that the universe is shaped like a ring. Maybe then it will tear into two separate universes. Who knows! tear? centre? there isn't a centre, and what is there to tear? the closest to tear that I have seen is a thought that the universe separates into a kind of foam as a result of expansion exceeding c. I don't remember it very clearly though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted July 15, 2003 Share Posted July 15, 2003 I seem to remember something similar. I believe this had to do with the universe on a large scale, however. As the galaxies were once throw fairly evenly accross space, they began to form strings of galaxies(for lack of a better description) with vast distances between the strings. These, if viewed in the 3-d model I am thinking of, do much resemble foam, or a sort of a twisted honeycomb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aman Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 Since we have so little actual microcosmic and macrocosmic data to use we are stuck with pretty much pure speculation. I could guess that an absolutely infinite empty universe would need energy to maintain its boundries like a bubble and if it popped would become a condensed droplet or a big bang on the cosmological scale. Two empty universes bumping could pop and do the same thing, condensed energy. If I had had an advanced technology I could inject an amount of energy into an empty universe and code it to build a fertile ground for life evolving. It's hard to know exactly what was the source of our beginning but it's easy to imagine many. Scientificaly I think I will wait until we break the microcosm barrier a great deal farther before I even start to endorse an explanation. Look to the microcosm for clues. Just aman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star-struck Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 How can the universe have no center? There must be an absolute center. The center doesn't necessarily have to stay the center for too long, depending on how the universe is expanding, but at any given moment there must be a center. As for what can tear...well the fabric of space of course. What if predictions are correct and such things as black holes can bend light waves? You may think you are looking out at something straight ahead of you when in reality it could be quite skewed. Some postulate that this could be the case and that the universe could actually be much smaller than we think. Some have gone as far to say, based on this model, that while we think we may be observing a distant galaxy we may actually and unwittingly be observing our own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 In the normal rules of euclidean geometry, it would seem you would find a center of a finite universe. But remember that we aren't dealing with Euclidean geometry - we are dealing with the curved spacetime of general relativity. Without learning Non Euclidean geometry, you can use the analogy of any curved 2D surface to see how the universe could be without a center. Often, surfaces such as that of tables are flat, but they can also be curved as in the case of a balloon. In that case, at no X,Y point will you be able to find a center. The analogy has its shortcomings, mainly because the universe is not the curved area of a surface, it's a curved volume. Furthermore, the term "fabric of spacetime" is somewhat of a popular physics word that isn't meant to be taken too literally. Spacetime isn't considered to be an aether like medium, and there is no actual substance that empty space is consisted of. Following from that, the universe should be in no danger of tearing from the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted July 16, 2003 Share Posted July 16, 2003 One of my favorite interjections is from Gene Rodenbury. He speculated that technological evolution happens in these stages. Up to being able to harness the power of an atom, then a star, then a solar system , then galaxy. It makes me wonder where he would have taken the notion of coding a universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Originally posted by Clown Don't forget the universe doesn't have a defined edge, as such Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 Originally posted by MrL_JaKiri Don't forget the universe doesn't have a defined edge, as such Do NOT get him started, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Posted July 17, 2003 Share Posted July 17, 2003 He's right, don't. Anyway, I think it's easier to just say the universe is infinite and that's why there's no edge or center. It's much easier than trying to explain Non-Euclidean geometry with clumsy balloon analogies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duster Posted July 18, 2003 Share Posted July 18, 2003 Started.. finished.. that is the question. What happens in between is what's really cool. Let's not forget that. One could think, when the heavens come down to the Earth... thats the day that matters. Others could say.. When the people of the Earth, RISE to take thier place in the heavans.. then that will be our time. I say, now is our time. Use it well. Today was my son's Birthday. Today he is 5. That's time travel. I'm still 17.(in my heart) This was a good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rebeldog Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 A lot of people will still say that because time did not exist before the big band that we should not even bother about it. Our laws of science would not be worth a penny before or even immediatly after the big bang so we shouldn't discuss it. The anthropic principle I suppose. I think this is wrong. We should and always wonder why the universe happened and why we are a product of it or indeed an essential part of it. GR could be right but who knows what is right. I dont know you dont know, but the ability to wonder is a great gift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted September 4, 2003 Share Posted September 4, 2003 That's all very well, but if the current understanding of the Big Bang is correct, then it is impossible to find out. The difference between that and GR i swe can find if GR is wrong or not. The big bang could have been triggered by a giant pink teddy bear for all we know, and can possibly know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radical Edward Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 The dark lord said in post #1 :If there was no time before the big bang occur, how did it start? Could the enormus energy of matter broke trough time, hmm... this doesnt sound to logical to me?! You're asking what is the first cause... Right now there are at least 5 possible candidates for First Cause to get the universe. They are, in no particular order: 1. Logical and mathematical necessity. The equations and laws of the universe are so compelling that they forced the formation of a universe for them to describe. 2. Deity. A God or Gods created the universe. 3. Quantum fluctuation. Events at the quantum level are uncaused. The universe is a huge quantum event. 4. No Boundary. This is a proposal by Stephen Hawking and updated with Turok. If all the dimensions of the universe were the same shortly after the Big Bang, you get a universe that doesn't have a beginning and therefore was never "created". It just IS. 5. Ekpyrotic. This is a variation of #3. The universe is the result of a random collision between two quantum membranes in 11 dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted September 5, 2003 Share Posted September 5, 2003 Stephen Hawking: Dinosaur Hunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m@ Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 Then again we are thinking in linear terms, the cause of the big bang may never be known because it may not even be understandable to us. I agree that someone said enjoy life because I doubt "humans" will ever know everything. Tell me if im speaking bs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 I just want to play that Hawking game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 6, 2003 Share Posted September 6, 2003 my personal Opinion, is that matter was being brought into and out of existance all the time, and it had like forever to do it as well. I picture the point of pure nothingness or Zero as being a point so fine as to be unatanable, a bit like ballancing a ball on an infinately sharp needle, the ball will fall, but the direction is unknown. When sufficient matter came into being gravity took over and the matter imploded (a bit like a super nova but bigger!), at that point when gravity and time came about it made the matter impossible to be put back to Zero again, as it would be out of phase with it`s origin. that`s how I see it anyway and it has no real basis in known science, it`s just my opinion. if nothing else, I find it interesting to picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted September 18, 2003 Share Posted September 18, 2003 I read of dimensional rifts, which, when corrosponding along the effects they had in other dimensions, blew a huge hole in the dimensions where the events in one dimension affected other dimensions in a serious way. Gravity came into being because of this and the universe was a chain reaction caused by this. The hole merely grew and that is where we live. This explains the big bang, universal expansion, the reason multidimensions exist and universal reset when we disperse - the hole no longer exists, as matter is the reason for the universe existing in the first place, matter is merely a representation of the effects it has on its dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted September 19, 2003 Share Posted September 19, 2003 werx 4 me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alt_f13 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by alt_f13 I read of dimensional rifts, which, when corrosponding along the effects they had in other dimensions, blew a huge hole in the dimensions where the events in one dimension affected other dimensions in a serious way. Gravity came into being because of this and the universe was a chain reaction caused by this. The hole merely grew and that is where we live. Rather than "blowing a hole" I meant that the effects, such as gravity, started catching other effects, such as single dimensional particle representation, at such a level that a chain reaction formed. Or perhaps each single dimensional particle representation had a gravitational effect in the other dimensions until they formed multi dimensional clumps, seen as 3-dimensional particles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonriver Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I think Human need much more intellectual alien friends to share their knowledge about how the universe started with us. It is so lonely to live in this universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I think Human need much more intellectual alien friends to share their knowledge about how the universe started with us. It is so lonely to live in this universe. ya really think so? if you ask me, I think it`s way to overcrowed here, I know I wish I could have some peace and quiet on a good many occasions, lonely it is NOT! (in my opinion). I`de consider "Aliens"! comming down here and chatting quite interesting, but I`m afraid that I`de still want my peace and quiet at times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hades Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 regardless of mathematical principles and general governing of how this could have happened, i still refuse to believe that prior to this beginning, there was only a single point. It must be pushing out on something, something must exist, it never can not exist. If only 1.0x10^-99 of a second after this expansion, it would then immediately bepushing on something, or if not creating then. damn bbl to refine my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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