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the mugger of all fathers

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Experts don't know about this .

By logic,  non-experts do know.  So I should get some knowledge from readers here.

The Sumerian/ Babylonian father-god Ea had a goat-fish , Capricorn, suhur.mash.    Akkadian. suhurmashu/i] .  

Sumerian Mashdagu is the first month of the year, corresponding to Capricorn. . 

 Akkadian   mashartarnu  big fish.    maste dried fish.

Sum. Tammabukku  dragon from the Land of Mash .

Sanskrit मच्छ maccha  fish    . Hindi .  makara muchch Capricorn . 

Makara Sankranti, Maghi, is a festival day in the Hindu calendar, in reference to deity Surya (sun). It is observed 

each year in January.  Skt makara crocodile. ra bright , shining.

The crocodile seems to be linked with the ritual and deity and may have been adapted to the capricorn fish.

  Mythical Animals in Indian Art - Page 45 - 
K. Krishna Murthy - 1985 - 
In early Amaravati sculpture the makara is partly a crocodile and partly a fish with the scales and fins emphasised,

It seems to derive from old India and crocodiles such as this one linked with religion: 

"In Later Hindu rituals, the water buffalo sacrifice is associated with the worship of the goddess Durga, but on this
seal the sacrifice takes place in the presence of a priest or deity seated in yogic position. Above the head of the
hunter is a small species of crocodile of Indus river  . Similar scenes of an individual spearing a water buffalo have been found on other terracotta tablets from both Harappa and Mohenjo-daro." (Ancient Cities of the Indus Valley Civilization,  pp. 11 4-5).

Is the machch crocodile-fish  derived from Sumerian mash fish of the god?

Mugger crocodile (Crocodylus palustris) are at  Sistan & Baluchistan Province, in southeastern Iran, on Makran

 coast. IAchaemenid times, the name Maka was used for the region and Babylon traded through it with India.

Magan (also Makkan) was an ancient region which was referred to in Sumerian cuneiform texts of

 around 2300 BC and existed to 550 BC . The Sumerian trading partners of Magan are identified with Makran.

Makara were a tribe there in 6th centAD.  So its crocodile and Babylonian fish merged to become makara we know and love today.



Is that how you see things?

Edited by nameless
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3 hours ago, nameless said:

Is the machch crocodile-fish  derived from Sumerian mash fish of the god?

Are you asking if the words are related?

I would say not. Almost certainly a coincidence. There are no known languages descended from Sumerian. There may have been a few loan words from Sumerian in Akkadian, but there is no evidence of much wider influence. Also, Akkadian was a Semitic language, while Hindu is Indo-European.

Given the limited number of sound combinations and large numbers of words in languages, it is easy to find words that sound similar and have similar meanings in unrelated languages. There are a few examples here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_cognate

That is why historical linguistics can't just rely on "sounds like" evidence; but has to look at the history of the words, possible sound changes, contact/borrowing between languages, etc.

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Hullo Strange

"In the 1st-millennium BCE Sumerian names were not normally translated into Akkadian, but rather rendered in the original Sumerian as loan-words/scientific terms.  

Capricornus "Goat-Horned", from MULSUḪUR.MAŠ "The Goat-Fish", marking winter

 solstice. It is a mythological hybrid depicted on boundary stones from before 2000 BC as a symbol of Ea, Babylon.


If we omit the six names GUD.AN.NA (Taurus), SIBA.ZI.AN.NA (Orion), SHU.GI (Perseus + and 

northern part of Taurus?), GAM (Auriga or Capella), SHIM.MAH (south-west part of Pisces) and 

Anunitum (north-east part of Pisces), those remaining are exactly the Babylonian names of the later

 signs of the zodiac,"

So we have a fish constellation of mid-winter and not just any red-herring but a composite monster.  Some people can say  珈琲店  and Babylonians talked to Sanskrit people in Maka when Greeks were making money.

Edited by nameless
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Makara festival is in January.

Just found this.    Skt माघ   mAgha    February
माघ     mAgha   January - February
maga       priest of the  sun.

"The Shakyas were by tradition sun worshippers, who called themselves Ādicca nāma gottena ("kinsmen of the sun") and descendants of the sun. As Buddha ( a Sakya) states in the Sutta-Nipāta, "They are of the sun-lineage (adiccagotta), Sakiyans by birth."  

The Egyptian crocodile Sobek became Sobek Ra of the sun.  Skt ra "shining" may be in *Maka ra ,   makara crocodile.  Makara is used by both Hindus and Buddhists.

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