Aristarchus in Exile

The arguments I was referring to are the endless arguments found on science forums, not just the ones I'm involved in. You appear to find accusations easy to make. If you have read bible scripture you might have discovered who the chief accuser is. I have NEVER thought that my mind is the only open mind and everyone else is closed, so you are fabricating as well as accusing and insulting. I have read several books on cosmology in which the wonderfully educated authors are open minded to the point that they admit their well researched, well founded and well written proposals may be wrong. That kind of attitude is not found often on internet discussion forums where the participants' qualifications provide lots of time for intenet chatter and power tripping but little opportunity for publication. If a scientific theory cannot be proven, the theorist and supporters are pretty much wasting their time in theorizing and supporting. Some scientific theories can be proven .. for instance, theorize mixing chemicals and applying a match and what happens. If a theory was involved in the creation of dynamite, that theory was proven. Your Police anaology doesn't apply in the least for many reasons. I never said I was being harshly treated, I never felt I was being harshly treated. The term 'warped' directed at me was used either as an insult or to test my response .. probably an insult but not certainly an insult, and because I'm not Jesus Christ I responded in a less than perfect way, but in a way which included charity.

Anyway Iggy .. the kind of exchange that you and I just have is a good reason for me to discontinue with this forum, as it seems that internet forums are almost never truly congenial places, and who needs the aggravation. Besisdes, the arguments are repeated and have been repeated and will be repeated until the earth ends.

Yes there is space and time, but if space and time are two seperate events either interwoven or simply acting together then either could theoretically be manipulated without mainipulation of the other.

So we simply need to find a parallel universe with an infinite supply of unobtainium raria isotopia .. no big problem.

I don't know how anyone can say something is impossible since we don't know what is possible. That kind of attitude is what stunts the mind.

In grade nine science I scored 100 percent without making a note through the school year. I think pseudo science is when theories (the big bang, the speed of light being constant and inalienable) are considered facts. I think if you reread my post you will see that I did not understand your question, but answered it the best I could. Scientific method's definitions include words like "empirical denotes information gained by means of observation or experimentation." the word 'observation' is open to many definitions according to the likes, dislikes, prejudices, etc of the observer .. the same applies for the word experimentation. I think true science keeps an open mind, a mind that says despite heavy evidence of confirmation, this theory may still be wrong, the other person may be right. Check out what Linus Pauling thought about quasicrystals. That is the attitude that is missing in the minds of most scientifically inclined people I meet on these kinds of forums.

Uness there is a possibility that questions can be considered presumptions I made no assumption, I asked a question. I will ramble. There is science, and false science. The bible speaks of "science falsely so called." 1 Timothy 6:20 In my opinion, because we cannot have perfect knowledge of science while on this planet any science which sets itself as 'absolute fact' is false science, as there are uncountable clear and huge examples of scientific fact having been proven false. I consider consensus a false god because those of the consensus conspire to agree that it is fact, and often punish those who disagree. A photon cannot do harm any more than alcohol can do harm, but overexposure may do harm, although I don't know if overexposure to photons can do harm (unless applied directly to the optic instruments giving sight) although overexposure to other forms of radiation does do harm. Will God do harm? God does punish evildoers if they continue long in their evil .. this is called justice and judgement, and applies especially to those who knowlingly abuse the grace of God, Christians who are christians because they believe in the grace of Jesus Christ. As the scripture says 'God is clothed with light as a garment' it is clear that light is a garment and not God, so I have become clearer on that. You lose my understanding with your phrasings involving the word 'prediction' and 'models.'

I've read that the Gulf Stream will not stop, but will shift west, warming the northern regions of North America and freezing Europe. Perhaps this has already begun, what with all the snow in Europe in recent years.

It would depend on the lifestyles of the humans. A human with a motor vehicle, yhact, and all the toys in a big mansion in a cold climate which requires the mansion to be heated will of course have more effect on a person living a lifestyle which features minimal materialism. A few decaes ago I read about a United Nations report which said the earth could support (either 40 billion or 80 billion population I can't remember which.) I don't think social tension is nearly as much affected by population growth as by advertisers convincing everyone to get the toys the other person either has or wants to have.

I've had the same thoughts about the super particle, and it appears that's what the particle accelerators are seeking, but I've also had a thought that speed is irrelevant, as proposed in non-locality action at a distance, in which everything is already connected as if space and time do not exist, and of course God has that kind of power.

Owl .. on another science forum a somewhat educated particpant stated gravity is infinite in its effect, resulting in gravity from one 'side' of the universe affecting matter on the other 'side' of the universe. I can't see how his idea is fact if gravity is curvature of space unless the curvatures are like waves which blow across the ocean, and of course gravitational waves are said to exist. Waves in oceans can cancel each other out or build each other higher, the same, I understand, in accoustics and possibly light. I don't believe in spacetime, believing space and time to be seperate although woven together, allowing for 'tears' or gaps in either space or time.

Who is to judge what is better? The consensus which fails so terribly so many times? http://en.wikipedia....aniel_Shechtman "Should a good physical theory predict phenomena that happen always? Yes, of course." One problem to Consensus thought is, there seems ALWAYS to be exceptions to the rule, but this is only a problem if that word "always" is iron bound in the phrase "that happen always."

Definition of God .. "God is Love," found in several places in the bible including John 4:8. Can I justify God allowing this or that or the other thing on earth? No, other than to say God's decisions are just. It seems elementary because photons are energy, and there appears to be what I have heard described as phase transistions in which energy is changed to matter .. but not being a physicist I only have glimpses of what these things mean.

Thanks to Baric and Ophiliolite for your input, particularly Baric who provides instruction. However, for Ophiolite to say my proposal "fails as a consideration" is the same attitude which exiled Aristarchus to exile, and also which caused Linus Pauling to call Daniel Shecthtman a "quasi scientist" and to crusade against him and his quasi crystals. http://en.wikipedia....archus_of_Samos http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Shechtman Aristarchus of Samos was more than 1,800 years 'ahead of his time,' proposing that the sun, and not the earth, was the centre of the solar system, his proposal getting him exiled. The same Consensus Enshrined ruled then as rules now .. a consensus which blinds itself to possibilty and degrades the visionary, as proven by the example of Daniel Shecthtman and his quasicrystals being crusaded against by Linus Pauling. The consensus is why that I can seriously consider consensus stances but cannot take them seriously, and also why I consider my own ideas which are based far more on Einsteinian imagination than 'facts' (which are only facts until proven otherwise) at least as valuable as those which the consensus claims to have proven. Had Aristarchus been taken seriously the human race would probably have visited other galaxies by now, as his open mindedness would have opened the minds of all who came after him, while his punishment certainly served as an inhibitor to those who did have vision. While I cannot possibly offer proof of my ideas, I can offer them to others for their consideration, knowing as I do so that others cannot offer proof that my ideas are wrong because "we know in part."

I can't accept your viewpoint, Ophiolite, regardless of your reasoning, as it simply allows one person, Baric in this case, to make broad general statements without proof, while demanding it of others, thereby leaving one person in the Driver's Seat with the keys, the gas pedal, the brakes, etc. Sorry, this is not acceptable to me and I doubt it would be acceptable in any legitimate debate because it makes politicians of debaters. In this case, I make a simple statement of faith, admitting I have no proof. I offer it only for consideration, not as a garette around my neck.

The bible says God is clothed with light (Psalm 102:4.) Photons are therefore a curiousity for me, and in the physics forum I found this. "Actually matter can be made from light. Using the mass example can be overcome. Other examples such as charge can also be overcome. Some scientists have suggested all matter is made from light, and there being experimental evidence when a particle and an antiparticle of the same family comes together ''somehow'' knocks the photons out of what ever substructure they create." Is a part of God or God entire inside every photon?

Right, we can't harness its use in cellphones right now, but I said I think it will be done in 20 years (if our technological civilization lasts that long.) I've just read a little pamphlet Korea put out about their advances in technology .. the amount of research going on in that one country is simply astounding, and that kind of research is being done by all major nations and corporations.

Absolutely correct! And man will never build heavier than air machines which will fly!

Quantum Loop Gravity theory says space is composed of pieces of whatever it is at about the Plank length .. I assume at that length whatever it is must be energy. A good article on this in a recent Scientific American. The universe appears to be space in combination with matter, for instance, Relativity suggests stars' mass warps space, therefore forming curved paths of light, etc. Spacetime is suggested by somet theorists as being indivisible, but Loop Quantum Gravity suggests space and time are seperate, woven together, with Time also divided into lengths somewhat equal to Plank lengths. I prefer to belive that space and time are seperate, but I also believe in non-locality, so will be considered extreme by most Relativists.

Baric .. your quote, "Keep in mind that any sphere of water that is large enough to be gravitationally round will be an almost completely solid hot ice under a thin layer of liquid water, under a thin layer of cold ice." You ask for proof of others' statements and complex scientific explanations but don't offer either as proof of your own statements. Why is this?

It's not two bibles .. it's two testaments .. the old and the new. One Word, but the New is the great change prophecied in the Old. God's enemies are slain if they don't repent .. going against God is going against nature, and nature kills those who continue to abuse it, for instance, the present worldwide empire of greed which is destroying the earth, the people of the empire will soon be destroyed, are being destroyed now and North America ia s good example with one third dying of cancer, one third of heart failure. And the great tribulation has barely begun.

If imagination was good enough for Einstein it's good enough for me. Where does the water go? It doesn't go anywhere .. the sphere expands as the rock inside the sphere expands. Where does the rock come from? It grows inside the sphere of water by molecular action. Where does the molecule come from? It either forms spontaneously from atoms or it drifts in on a meteor perhaps? What changes rock to different types of rock? Geologic action. I think all areas of science would benefit if they weren't so specialized, astrophysicists should study geology for instance, as they are dealing with rocks in space. One thing about forms .. many readers do not read posts carefully, and add words from their own minds to their idea of what the posts are saying, for instance, I wrote "moons of Saturn and Jupiter" and somehow that became 'all moons of Jupiter and Saturn' and even the planets themselves. Oh well .. such is life. I don't know what happened to the post I just posted and tried to edit, seems to have disappeared, but you know, I don't know if internet forums are worth participating in, too many readers add words from their own minds to what they are reading. Example, my "moons of Jupiter and Saturn" becomes 'all moons of Jupiter and Saturn', and also the phrase is translated as meaning the planets themselves. Another thing, instead if just accepting someone's idea as an idea or opinion, too many participants pontificate instead of building on the idea or presenting evidence to refute it. A lot of time gets wasted.

Baric, my original post stated that the minerals grow layer by layer within the globe of water, so that acretion is not necessary. I mentioned that I could not remember the name of the scientific publication I read which stated that minerals grow from a certain molecule in water, but a simple understanding how atoms form molecules leads to understanding of how minerals can be formed in water, or anywhere. Certainly acretion can form planets, but not in the model I propose and am certain of.

Of course it's self serving .. everything is to serve God, for his purposes, according to his plan. Simple. They ate the fruit, of course, not the tree, although inner bark from some trees was a staple food of many peoples on earth. But the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil is, among other things, clear conscience (potentially giving rise to self-righteousness and pride because one person thinks himself or herself better than others, this leading to hatred of inferiors) or guilty conscience, giving rise to torment which can even lead to suicide. The OTHER tree which was in the garden mentioned in Genesis, the tree of life, was the cross at Calvary, giving the solution to both problems .. the end of the law .. the end of death, for Christ was the resurrection through which we will resurrect into eternity, "for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" so ALL must avail themselves of the tree of life, the cross of calvary .. and that is the great leveller and humility. God did want us to discern between good and evil, that's why he told us not to eat the fruit. Not to eat of the fruit was good. To eat it was evil. Adam and Eve knew good and evil .. but they chose to do the evil because that was God's plan, which was why he put the tree of life in the garden, so that not even Adam and Eve, directly formed by the hand of God and put into an earthly paradise formed by God, would be able to think themselves better than anybody else in the history of the world.

I believe in God because God gave me faith to believe in God. I believe Jesus Christ is God because God gave me faith to believe that. I believe the King James Bible is true and perfect because God gave me the faith to believe it. God has also proven himself to me in many ways, including this past summer's employment as a live-in maintenance man at an all girls camp during which I was able to pay off my debts, this, despite having at one time sold illegal drugs, etc. God is able to do all things because God is God .. and God is Love. I found God when searching for the Truth and discovered that God is the truth. P.S. The tree in the garden of Eden was not the tree of knowledge, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 2:17 (Whole Chapter)