Tub

1 hour ago, DrKrettin said:

*groan* I'm rather fazed by your spelling.

Hello, Drk. I stumbled across two new words recently: one was " catachresis ", which is relevant to " phase " and " faze "; the other is  "ultracrepidarianism "  which could apply to a few  people in these forums ( not including you, of  course..ha,ha.. but definitely including me ). You may already be familiar with these words but, if you aren't, and knowing your interest in Greek and Latin, i think you might be interested in their etymology.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/ultracrepidarianism

1 hour ago, tar said:

 

 

The other roadblock is that scientists have no way to prove that what they experience as consciousness is also going on in another human's head.

Silly roadblock.   It is functionally obvious when everybody in the theatre jumps and gasps at the same moment, when the killer appears suddenly,  that we are all experiencing the same world in the same manner at the same moment.

Regards, TAR

This too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_mentality

30 minutes ago, Area54 said:

No. I credited everyone with the smarts to see that on line could refer to computers, forums and railway lines, or even on topic, leaving them the freedom to go in their preferred direction. Had we been talking about sheep rather than cattle, there would have been the option of discussing rams.

Sorry, A. I think there has been a bit of miscommunication here - two countries separated by the same language. When i wrote " on railway-line " that was my pun. Here in little England,  we don't say " railroad tracks " but we do say " railway lines ". If you were English you would probably have thought that my pun was the greatest, funniest pun ever invented! Can i give you another great pun: ....... it seems we had a crossed-line. Do i get the prize now, or will i be  "punished " for not being funny? 

16 minutes ago, Strange said:

Gravitation lensing is quite unusual and a small effect so it is usually pretty obvious. There might be the odd photon that gets deflected in a long path past multiple galaxies, but it seems pretty unlikely. Here is a nice example of predicting exactly what lensing effect to expect: https://cosmosmagazine.com/space/supernova-deja-vu-all-over-again 

 

Thanks again - especially for the great link.

Just now, Strange said:

It can't be explained by refraction because that causes dispersion. (And you would have the problem of having to replace GR.)

Just now, swansont said:

Could it be? Sure. But as with the previous claim of diffraction, you can calculate the conditions under which it would ocur. These are fairly well-understood phenomena.  

Thank you both. May i also ask, is it possible that light from a very distant source could be affected so many times by lensing ( a sort of slalom effect ) that it would be very difficult, if not impossible, to trace that light back to its source?

11 minutes ago, beecee said:

 

All gravitational lensing is by the way, is the observation of light following geodesics, or the shortest route between two points in curved/warped spacetime.

 

17 minutes ago, Strange said:

That's a good point. If the OP has an alternative explanation for gravitational lensing, then that means GR is wrong and he also needs to come up with alternative explanations for the way gravity works (e.g. the precession of Mercury), gravitational time dilation, frame dragging, the expansion of space, gravitational waves, black holes, the Shapiro effect, and on and on ...

Could gravitational lensing be the same effect as described by Fermat's principle, or by refraction, as both describe the deflection of light passing from one medium to another of a different density?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_principle

P.S. I'm sure you both don't need the link but someone else like myself might.

52 minutes ago, Cap'n Refsmmat said:

 

Glad to hear you got the crash fixed.

Thanks, Cap'n. All's well that ends well. ( I'm using my smartphone now).

5 hours ago, iNow said:

Glad you got it all sorted, Tub. SJ FTW!

Ha, ha. Thanks.

59 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Nice try, but that seems true of everyone, culture involves us all, at what point is there an individual? 

Thanks, dimreepr. I must admit i felt as though i was walking into the lions' den with my post.

Anyway, you are right, culture does involve us all and can become a common feature of the consciousness of  each individual, but there are differing elements to consciousness that are unique to different people. If all goes well, each human brain is born with roughly the same  psychological apparatus required for developing and sustaining consciousness, and if i could liken this apparatus to a suitcase, we all have a similar suitcase and lots of things we pack into it are things that everybody else might pack, but some things we pack are unique to ourselves: an Inuit grandmother wouldn't have packed exactly the same things as a Korean dictator. I think that's where the individuality comes into the equation. 

At the moment, Gees and i hold different opinions as to whether it is consciousness per se that evolves or it is the capacity to be conscious that evolves and then accumulates consciousness. In other words, as i presently see it, the suitcase evolves but the contents of the suitcase accumulate. Either one of could be right or wrong.

1 hour ago, tar said:

Tub,

I think that is a good start.  It deals with "the self" which I think is actually crucial to life.   I am thinking of the first cell, like a bubble,  creating an inside and an outside.  An identity, that separates one small part of the universe from the rest.

And then there is the existence in a human of a "memory" of all the things that touched it from when it started recording such things, or from perhaps the point when it became a separate identity from the rest of the place.  I have this scar on my knee from when I fell in some grass and dirt in the school yard onto a shard of glass.  You don't have this scar, nor the memory of falling and getting taken to a classmate's father (a dentist) to get the gash sewn up.  It is part of MY identity.  This particular consciousness, identified as TAR.

Regards, TAR

 Thank you too,Tar. Even if i'm wrong, we can sometimes see the truth by seeing what is false.What i've underlined in your quote above is exactly what i was trying to get at. However, i have to add that i don't think that that is the be all and the end all of the matter: identity/self also needs examining further, ( especially that word " separates " ), but i think i have gone far enough into the lions' den just now. 

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Yet this thread hasn't produced even one...

Although i agree with Gee that it is more important to understand consciousness rather than try to define it, i'll act as a guinea-pig and, just for arguments sake, offer-up this short attempt at one subjective definition: 

The content of my consciousness is all my life-experiences: my upbringing, my education, my environment, and all the other  influences brought to bear on me, and this creates my sense of identity. Without that content there is no self-consciousness, and that content is my consciousness so, at the risk of being ridiculed, i will here define consciousness as identity.

Be gentle with me.

1 hour ago, Area54 said:

Today I learned that the cowcatcher device fitted to the front of railway locomotives to displace any objects blocking the line was invented by Charles Babbage, the same Charles Babbage who designed the first (mechanical) computer. "A well made cow-catcher could throw a  buffalo weighing 2000 lbs some 30 feet."

Source: The Historical Atlas of North American Railroads ISBN 978-0-7858-2781-8 page 44.

Prizes on offer for whomever comes up with the best "on-line" pun!

Shouldn't you have said " on railway-line " pun?

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

There could have been a glitch in your W8 or, possibly,  there are newer protocols in the forum software or routines that a  W8 phone has problems with. The software here seems quite advanced.

I think it was most likely caused by what i've underlined in your quote above - apart from the problem with the SFN Homepage, the rest of the phone was perfectly fine and, after all, the problem did start the first time i used the phone, then still with W8, after the latest SFN update.It would be interesting to know if anybody else is still using W8 on their phone and having the same problem that i did. Thanks again SJ.

On 9/8/2017 at 6:22 PM, StringJunky said:

You should be on W10 now. Don't you just hate Linux fanboys and iPhones are for old people and computer neophytes.

Re the ScienceForums Home page crashing the browser on my Windows8 phone.

Thanks again, StringJunky. As a last resort, i followed your advice, updated to W10 and everything is back to normal.

On 9/8/2017 at 1:34 PM, Cap'n Refsmmat said:

By "the whole browser shuts down", do you mean it just crashes and disappears? That sounds like a bug with Windows Phone; can you check you have the latest software updates installed on your phone?

19 hours ago, iNow said:

Yes, a crashing browser on a smartphone is very much a "first-world" problem, but be fair to your authentic reaction. It's still an annoying and frustrating inconvenience that many of us can relate to. Good luck, either way!

Re the ScienceForums Home page crashing the browser on my Windows8 phone.

Even though all the software on my phone was up-to-date, StringJunky, who also has a Windows phone, advised me to upgrade the whole OS to Windows10 and that solved the problem right away. Still don't know what caused it though.

Thanks to you both for your readiness to help.

2 minutes ago, iNow said:

Yes, a browser on a smartphone is very much a "first-world" problem, but be fair to your authentic reaction. It's still an annoying and frustrating inconvenience. Good luck, either way!

Thanks. Seems like the " Who's Online " problem might just be fixed now. I'll sign off right away and see if my name does disappear from the online list.

Edit: Yes, my name does vanish now when i sign-off.  Just that phone now! I'll post here again if i ever solve the mystery of the crashing browser.

Just now, iNow said:

Are you able to download an alternative browser like Chrome and test using that? Sounds like a bug in the code of the existing browser that needs updating. When my apps crash, it's generally due to a design flaw within that specific app.

Done that, iNow. And, believe it or not, i managed to make things worse for myself! Last night, i downloaded something called " SurfCube 3D Browser " (for free ) and it actually worked for a while until that crashed too - before i had time to sign-out from the SF website! Now my name is permanently on the Who's Online list! I've e-mailed the Administrators about this so we'll see what happens. What is very strange is that the browsers only crash when i try to get onto the SF website Home page - every other website loads as normal. Weird.

As i said to StringJunky, it looks like a new phone is needed - maybe i'll try Android this time. I shouldn't really be complaining  about something so trivial though, seeing what's happening to people in your part of the world. The weather here in England is pretty bad but it's nothing compared with Irma.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

You could try refreshing your phone or even just rebooting it.

Thanks for the advice, SJ. I've already tried just about everything without success so it looks like a new phone is needed. On another matter, perhaps related to this, my user-name is permanently displayed on the Home page even after i've signed out! 

7 minutes ago, tar said:

 

 

Perhaps if you drop the thief and just say the superego is good (or god), the id is man (fallen from innocence through acquiring the knowledge of good and evil ) and Christ is the moderator between God and man.

Hello,Tar. Thanks. What you say opens up other avenues for thought, but, for myself, i would prefer not to explore any possible religious aspects at the moment, just the implications for psychological enlightenment - what Jung called " Individuation ".

7 hours ago, tar said:

 

 Freud's idea of the SuperEgo is appropriate.

3 hours ago, Gees said:

 

 

Well, I did a little studying on Freud, and what I found was that even his detractors agreed that Freud was a genius.

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Freud was most assuredly brilliant (though perhaps a bit too fond of cocaine). His ideas even offer an interesting framework for laymen to describe the mind.

The problem I have is specifically with his three part model, his proposed psychic apparatus. Id, Ego, and Superego.

I think if you equate Freud's model with the ingenious metaphor of the Christian crucifixion, you may see something surprising:

superego --------- good thief

id ---------------------- bad thief

ego ------------------- christ

Do you see what i think i see?

8 hours ago, iNow said:

Maybe a cookie setting or similar issue is involved. If the site's logging you out, it could be because your authentication credentials are being lost as you navigate from page to page. The idea being that each time a different page loads the site sees you as a brand new person. The login you entered on the previous page maybe isn't coming with you. 

Or maybe you need to click the Remember Me checkbox...

Thanks iNow. Unfortunately, i can't try out your idea of ticking the Remember Me checkbox,  when i'm on my phone, as the browser crashes before i can sign-in. What's worse, i tried a new browser on my phone, instead of Internet Explorer, and that worked fine until that crashed too before i could sign-out! Now it looks like i'm  permanently signed-in ,lol. Shakespeare was right: " When sorrows come, they come not in single spies, but in battalions".

Edit: Now, 10 minutes later, i'm not signed-in! Think i'll just go back to bed

1 hour ago, Cap'n Refsmmat said:

 

This is bizarre, and I don't know why it'd be happening apart from a bug in Internet Explorer on Windows Phone. I wish I had advice to give you, but I don't have a Windows Phone and don't know how to debug this issue further.

Yes, it is very bizarre.  At least i can still easily access the website on my PC. If i ever get to the bottom of the problem, i'll let you know what has happened. Thanks for your replies.

6 hours ago, Cap'n Refsmmat said:

By "the whole browser shuts down", do you mean it just crashes and disappears? That sounds like a bug with Windows Phone; can you check you have the latest software updates installed on your phone?

Hello again, Cap'n. Just to add a little to my other posts above, i think i've isolated the problem on my Windows8.1 phone and it seems to be just unable to load the Home page. The phone  is definitely updated and works properly in every other way, so the problem seems to be confined to some issue between the phone and the Scienceforums Home page, as i've been able to access all the forums and subforums through the back-door as it were:

e-mail link----General Philosophy----All Activity----- Past Hour/Today, then accessing the different threads through their blue banner headlines, then working backwards through the various subforums and forums to whatever thread i want to visit. It's slow doing it this way but it does work and everything is  fine - but only until i try to go to the Home page, when the browser ( IE ) crashes every time. This has only happened after the latest update and no other website Homepage i visit causes the browser to crash. It mystifies me that i can access every page on the website apart from the Home page. Hope you can help.Thanks.

8 minutes ago, iNow said:

I think I've identified your problem  

Ha, ha.  On reflection, perhaps i should have just said Windows8 phone.  No offence intended, Bill...well maybe just a little.

1 hour ago, Tub said:

Hello again, Cap'n. I was just about to post a reply to StringJunky when you posted so i'll post that after this post. (It's actually appeared above your reply to me ). Yes, the whole browser just crashes and disappears, though i can use it  immediately again for other websites without a problem.   What i was saying to SJ was that i found a  fix by entering the web-address directly into the browser rather than by accessing the address from my " Saved Favourites " folder and that method works fine. Still can't get access from the SF folder though. I'll check for updates. Thanks. If you read my reply to StringJunky above, there's a little more information that might be relevant.

Edit: Just checked and my phone-settings are all updated but unfortunately my fix seems to have only been temporary, and the browser crashed again, even after i entered the address directly.

 

 Sorry to quote myself, but part of my Edit 2 wasn't saved  properly for some reason and i couldn't alter it in that post. Anyway, for a little more clarity, it should read as follows:

Edit 2: I e-mailed a link to a page of a thread to my phone and i find i can navigate ok, from that link, to and from the other forums that are linked to that forum that contains the linked page: i.e. i linked to a page in General Philosophy and from there can access the Religion and Ethics pages and their threads without a problem, but, as soon as i navigate to the website Home page, the browser crashes again. Puzzling.

1 hour ago, Cap'n Refsmmat said:

By "the whole browser shuts down", do you mean it just crashes and disappears? That sounds like a bug with Windows Phone; can you check you have the latest software updates installed on your phone?

Hello again, Cap'n. I was just about to post a reply to SringJunky when you posted so i'll post that after this post. (It's actually appeared above your reply to me ). Yes, the whole browser just crashes and disappears, though i can use it  immediately again for other websites without a problem.   What i was saying to SJ was that i found a  fix by entering the web-address directly into the browser rather than by accessing the address from my " Saved Favourites " folder and that method works fine. Still can't get access from the SF folder though. I'll check for updates. Thanks. If you read my reply to StringJunky above, there's a little more information that might be relevant.

Edit: Just checked and my phone-settings are all updated but unfortunately my fix seems to have only been temporary, and the browser crashed again, even after i entered the address directly.

Edit 2: I e-mailed a link to a thread to my phone and i find i can navigate ok , from that link ,through  the other forums on the same page  that contains that thread and others,  but as soon as i access the " Home " page the browser crashes again. Puzzling.

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

I have a Windows phone. What browser?

Hello, SJ.  The browser is the version of Internet Explorer which is bundled with Windows 8.1. Sorry i don't know exactly what version of IE that is, although, in Settings,my website preference has always been set at " mobile version ".

Edit: I've just managed to fix things: i had been logging into the website from my saved " favourites " folder and  so i decided to delete that and  re-enter the web address directly into the browser  which worked perfectly. I then saved the web address in " favourites " again, tried to access that way again and  failed again so i guess that in future i'll just have to re-enter the web-address directly into the browser. Thanks for your reply anyway.

Edit:. As i have just told Cap'n Refsmaat  below, the fix turned out to be only temporary. Back to square one.