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# bvr

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1. ## Tim88    bvr

Hi bvr, that's a nice "light clock" gif!

t looks like a lot of work... maybe you had a trick or tool for that?

1. Thanks Tim88.
I didn't use a special tool, just Gimp and an online tool: http://gifmaker.org
It took me several hours and some patience, there are 84 frames.

2. ## Light

"measuring light with light" was indeed an oversimplification, even a pun (probably not the best idea for a clear explanation). I just wanted to indicate the similarity of propagation of light and of all other electromagnetic phenomena. A light clock is indeed the simplest illustration of time dilation. If we accept that a light clock physically slows due to increased light path: we should admit that "something analogue" happens in any co-moving clock, if both continue to tick at the same rate.
3. ## Light

Yes, for you as a physicist, that's obvious. But you won't succeed to explain the relativistic effects that way to laymen. So, what's wrong with the mechanistic view? Of course it's incomplete (a complete description would be very complicated and involve QM) and approximative (but your analogy of the geometric description is so too). But I don't think it's contradictory, nor exclusive, to the geometric description, and it can give an idea of what's going on in a way that is comprehensible for everyone. Even for teaching Relativity on undergraduate level a constructive approach can be prefered at the beginning, see Miller A constructive approach to the special theory of relativity .
4. ## Light

In the original frame, where the object was at rest at the beginning, there was a certain equilibrium on it's structure. When it was brought into movement, it's structure changed and came to a different equilibrium. In the co-moving frame, where the object stays at rest, it's structure didn't change and the observed equilibrium is still the same as that observed in the original frame when the object was at rest, and different from the new observed equilibrium in the original frame.
5. ## Light

Isn't the underlined part a contradiction in terms? I don't see a contradiction. I'm speaking of the equilibrium of the internal structure of the object. Yes, of course, in the moving frame the observed equilibrium will be different (and in fact the same as that of the object when it was at rest in the original frame). I mean the forces which hold the atoms together in an object.
6. ## Light

If by this you are referring to length contraction, then this is a resounding NO! Length contraction is not the result of forces acting on an object There are no more (or less) forces acting when an object is moving. It's an equilibrium. Of course there was once another force involved, the acceleration.
7. ## Light

The reason is that, when we measure the speed of electromagnetic waves (such as light) we are forced to use instruments based on electromagnetic interactions. In fact, we measure the speed of light with light. Also, light is used to define the units of time and space. Matter is made mainly of emptiness between the particles that are joined by electromagnetic forces. These forces propagate like light. The structure of an object results from the balance between forces in all directions. When the object moves, a new balance gets settled between the transverse and longitudinal forces, what results in a contraction in the direction of the movement. In the same way, when a clock is in movement, the distance the interactions must pass between the atoms constituting the instrument increases, and that slows down the internal movement. To the limit, if the clock reached the speed of light it would stop, since the electromagnetic interactions could not go from one particle to the other (but at the same time, of course, the distance between the particles would become zero). It is evidently valid not only for the measuring tools, but for any object (including our own body, which thus ages less when it is in movement). In other words, in a moving frame of reference, time dilates and lengths decrease.

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9. ## The twin paradox and other variants.

Maybe I was unclear. I didn't mean that SR was based on an absolute frame of reference. The explanations of the twin paradox are. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_paradox#No_twin_paradox_in_an_absolute_frame_of_reference
10. ## The twin paradox and other variants.

Sure we have, but how compatible are they with Einstein's theory, as they are based on the idea of an absolute frame of reference, and on the fact that the two observers are not fully equivalent, even during the inertial periods?
11. ## The twin paradox and other variants.

I agree with that. The point is that the sentence (in post #32) A doesn't just "appear" to run fast, it runs fast. is confusing. It would be true if A felt in a real gravitational field. Light signals sent during that period would also prove that A's time really accelerated. It's not the case with the pseudo-gravity. At the end of the trip, B must accept that, as the light signals show, his calculation of A's time change was not in accordance with reality. Another confusing sentence is: The pseudo-gravity field is uniform and extends to infinity. If the pseudo-gravity is supposed to have any effect, the field can't fill the entire space instantaneously as this would contradict the theory. In our example, the effect would reach A when he aged 27 years. But instead, pseudo-gravity has no effect at all. IMO, that leaves us with no explanation of the twin paradox from the viewpoint of the traveller in terms of Relativity Theory.
12. ## The twin paradox and other variants.

I think pseudo-gravity can't be used in this context. Consider the following situation: B (blue line) is moving away from A at 0.8c during 9 (of his) years, and then comes back at he same speed. They both send a picture of their clocks every year. Red are A's signals, green are B's. B will receive 3 pictures during the first part of the journey, and one every 4 months during the second part. He won't see a sudden advance of A's time due to his own acceleration.
13. ## Models for making sense of relativity - physical space vs physical spacetime

Thank you Tim88 for this excellent presentation. I think it would be helpful to add a little clarification to this paragraphe: IMO length and time measurement are not affected by Absolute Space as such, but by the effect of electro-magnetic propagation. When an EM wave is formed in a moving system, the propagation of the wave is independent of the motion of the system. That means that the centers of all the EM waves stay in one single frame wherein the waves propagate as growing spheres. But since the shape of all the objects depends on EM forces which thus propagate independently, the moving objects (including rulers and clocks) are affected in such a way that in there own frame, the propagation of the EM waves will always appear to be isotropic and their measured speed will always be the same (=c), despite of any change in velocity of the object's frame.
14. ## Help me understand Einstein's atomic clock experiments.

If frame A and frame B are moving relative to each other, you can say that according to A, B's time runs slow, and according to B, A's time runs slow. At the same time, of course, A's and B's times run differently according to all the other frames. That makes no sense for me, but with an abstract concept as time, you can say that. But if one considers that the cause of the time slowing could be a physical effect on the clocks (and all other processes), one can't say that all the clock's are affected in a different way at the same time. If that was your point, then I agree. But that doesn't exclude the possibility of a physical effect of the change of velocity in the own frame.
15. ## Help me understand Einstein's atomic clock experiments.

Sorry, but when I accelerate, you can say that I stay stationary and make move the rest of the universe, but I don't believe that. If after the acceleration something changed with my observations, I think the change happened in my frame.
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