fredreload

14 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

because it's funny, when you guys try to explain it...

LOL right(agrees), but jokes aside, someone has to live their entire life crippled if they could just use progesterone to regenerate a limb, but such an information is never released to the public. Is there something secret about salamanders?

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Yes, it’s a highly-held secret. It’s not like they’d tell you in any of the journal articles, or other sources that are easily Googled.</s>

Well, what is the reason you guys keep it a secret? How can we be sure to entrust this to the Watchmen and ensure the Watchmen does not abuse its power?

On another note, progesterone for human regeneration is on another path for my search to immortality and it seems largely harmless(it is not a weaponry), why keep progesterone as a mean of human regeneration a secret?

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Really? That’s what you got from this discussion?

I will go back and reread LOL, but lately been busy with the job hunt.

Quote

Yes, multiple times

Sodium atoms are the one used by the Harvard slow light experiment which I posted, I wouldn't know the absorption spectrum for the sodium atoms they used to conduct the experiment.

10 hours ago, swansont said:

Why would you use 780 nm on sodium?

Well, you are trying to inhibit the infrared heat energy dissipation which is the same for all materials. Although you did mention 780nm is for rubidium atoms. So, I dunno.

2 hours ago, swansont said:

Then you know nothing about BEC, despite this discussion.

My bad, I will drop by to learn about BEC from time to time = =, I might use a Chrome browser.

51 minutes ago, md65536 said:

Why do you think it would turn into a BEC if hot? A BEC involves the atoms being in the lowest quantum states, not highly energetic ones. The laser cooling described in the thread is done to take energy away from the atoms.

A layman explanation of a BEC (and possibly completely wrong, others please correct me) is that when a particle's speed is very close to zero (ie. very low temperature), you know the momentum of it to high certainty, so due to the uncertainty principle, you can only know the position of it to lower certainty. With a cloud of particles acting as if the particles are each spread out, they overlap each other (their wave functions overlap) and are indistinguishable, and the cloud behaves in ways that are like it's one macroscopic fuzzy particle (for lack of words), instead of behaving like it's made of many microscopic particles. If the atoms are hot (in aggregate), I don't think there's a practical way to force the positional uncertainly that you need for these effects.

Precisely, you'll need a dome of mortys to conceal the genius wavelength

P.S. I got that from learning about Rasenga from Crunchyroll @@

Rasengan*

23 minutes ago, Klaynos said:

Everything you have written here is wrong. What does anything here have to do with immortality or time travel?

A 1 meter BEC should theoretically pull in enough photon energy to create a time machine(black orb), but this is theoretical and would not fit the topic. Immortality is a something I am trying to pull with the dream groups since the Persians, but both are off topic so I am leaving it at that. You could message me if you are interested. This is all I know about BEC so I am leaving it as it is.

On 2/19/2021 at 1:08 AM, swansont said:

You claimed your post would make sense on this day. 

Well Swanson sir, too many factors in question about these dream groups = =. I have only one objective, which is immortality, and I want them to realize this for me since they know the brain structure inside and out. Thing is I do not know them in person. I do not know how to invest in them(if investment in stock is even required), nor do I know how to purchase this product known as immortality from them, or their true objective(world domination?). I just sort of want an extra life for free, puting all the resources I can into these dream groups with my half baked knowledge(About progesterone and striatum) and man power(If any? Cuz my Amazon associate is not showing me any man power). These dream groups remain to be theoretical entities labeled by numbers from my perspective. I do not want to get people to invest/purchase this product known as immortality from them only to find out they are cons(they might not be). That would put my reputation at stake and be called a scammer(am not). What I think we should do is sort of tap into their network and see what they are doing and see if we can get a share if they are not civilians restricted. I alone am not a good indicator for these groups since I do not know them and I receive about 80% of all dreams turning out to be nightmares(They visit me at night and make me dream). I do not want to wake up missing an arm or part of the brain, that would be outrageous.

With that said, a one meter BEC is a potential time machine if the energy is manipulated correctly. I am not as interested in traveling the future(who wouldn't), but more on manipulating the frames of the person in question so you can sort his life in reverse. Of course knowing the future grants infinite possibilities including death avoidance, but I just want to place this theoretical clone body on the correct time frame so once I pass out I would be linked directly to the clone body with no lag time.

With that said, well, building a one meter BEC and storing energy has to do with precise manipulation of infrared energy. You are beaming the Near Infrared Laser of 780nm to inhibit sodium atoms from emitting infrared energy as heat energy while having it absorb light of a different wavelength so it keeps getting hotter and hotter until it turns into a BEC or possibly a black hole. I am not sure if a black hole is required to store light energy though I would have to look into the EIT method you mentioned.

As promised I am back on 2021/02/18. There does not seem to be anything I can add to this thread. Happy Chinese New Year

9 hours ago, swansont said:

A room temperature item will emit IR out near 10 microns, in a broad continuum. A Maxwell-Boltzmann distribution. Which is not what we have in laser slowing.

It is the 21st century, any method of laser slowing should be kept in check for the distant future.

P.S. Number 2(They are America right?) is working, but I do not know if they have a molecular transformer for revival(I might make a post about this device in the future), you will have to check with the dream groups(important). I am keeping number 4 as a backup(I am not personally invested in 2 or 4 nor do I know who they are, I only dream from time to time) and if they do offer immortality, I might have to go with them, but I will not betray America(This is so you guys do not hate me(America), I need some time to think about this = =, if I should sacrifice myself for the well being of my country, this is the 21st century, even seppuku is banned).

P.S. If anything does not make sense in this post, you will have to wait until 2021/2/18, it is Chinese New Year. Have fun and treat yourself to something good.

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

Light doesn’t reflect light, and for some atoms the transition is in the visible (like the Na you keep bringing up), and this isn’t a thermal effect of the atoms, so heat dissipation isn’t in play.

Well, cuz I found this on the NASA site (https://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/5-8/features/F_Infrared_Light_5-8.html?fbclid=IwAR3x1FeHPQmz1hO41lLGo81qLNdOvCOcrIdnX6XyAWf6e40vs6-eRnFlwS0)

Summary:

"We know that many things emit infrared light. But many things also reflect infrared light, particularly near infrared light."

The idea is that, when atoms absorb heat it emits thermal radiation in the form of infrared. Sort of like black color absorbs visible light of all wavelength and then emits heat. We can see the amount of heat a person has through thermal vision, because it detects infrared light. So my idea is infrared light is sort of synonymous to heat dissipation.

Quote

As I said, I’ve used multiple topologies of lasers.

Well, you have mentioned 1mw/cm^2 but I need to translate 1mw to number of rays in terms of infrared laser, but I suppose that is a technical jargon you guys use.

Quote

But I daresay you haven’t picked up the process.

Uh, yes @@(I do not know), just trying to swim through the ideas

36 minutes ago, swansont said:

No, it’s not.

Well, perhaps you are reflecting the atoms infrared radiation back to itself with 780nm light which is near infrared capable of reflecting infrared radiation(also the material absorbs radiation itself).

Quote

Of order 1 mW/cm^2 for Rb

Cool, I will look into it, and you use this laser from 6 directions for the magneto-optical trap? On a single ray?

Quote

This is not a thing, in this process

Well but it is the right thing to do, not that I have a say in this, just happened to pick up the process

52 minutes ago, swansont said:

Scientific terminology is sometimes different from lay usage

Google helps from time to time

Quote

And?

And emits light of wavelength particularly of that of the blue color

Quote

You mentioned gamma radiation, for some reason. 

Cuz I thought you guys are hacking in photons with high frequency light. But the important part here is more on blocking the infrared heat dissipation on 6 directions.

Would something like this work(infrared lamp)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrared_lamp

Or should I put it through a converging lens? What is the intensity of the laser you use to work on an atomic scale? I am not sure about the unit for laser/light measurement(Lumen? Photons per area?Might be proportional to heat dissipation).

P.S. Thanks for sharing your knowledge

31 minutes ago, md65536 said:

So to recap, "in the direction of absorption" is why you need photons coming from multiple directions, and you need a wavelength slightly longer than the atom's resonant frequency so that the photons are only absorbed by atoms moving toward the light source (blue-shifted to the resonant frequency). Contrary to what fredreload seems to suggest (I may be misinterpreting), you need the atoms to release that energy to get them to a lower quantum state. If they only absorb, I suppose you could still cool them, but they won't form a BEC by being in their lowest quantum state.

Hmm, is there a way to inhibit infrared dissipation/heat dissipation? With infrared laser perhaps? Just curious

P.S. I think you use infrared lasers to inhibit the infrared dissipation of the material, at the same time you apply another wavelength of light for the material to absorb.

P.S. I dunno about the microwave method though, it might release enough infrared to compensate for the heat, or it might build up

1 hour ago, swansont said:

No mention of “saturated” here. And I was asking if you knew what it meant, not if you could google, and you’ve confirmed that you don’t.

Must have learned it from an English class = =

Quote

Vapor is invisible, so how could you tell?

Because it absorbs sunlight

Quote

Gamma radiation has nothing to do with our discussion, save for your irrelevant tangents.

You use infrared in this case, sort of like infrared vision(heat vision). You hack in the infrared light to make the objects having more energy as oppose to it dissipating infrared energy as heat.

P.S. It would naturally dissipates infrared as heat, do you inhibit infrared dissipation?

P.S. But since it emits infrared, you might be able to reverse hack it, or use something with more energy than infrared that the material absorbs

On 2/8/2021 at 1:04 PM, md65536 said:

You could also try a microwave oven, to bombard it with microwaves. You could add a toaster, and let it absorb infrared. But will that cause spontaneous emission like in what you quoted? And how do you get the atoms moving toward these heat sources to preferentially absorb the light? Why does resonance matter, in what gets absorbed and what is emitted, if the atoms can simply absorb light of many different wavelengths?

Haven't tried microwaving water vapor in vacuum, did it work? You beat me to this one

P.S. This is beyond fusion temperature, you might form a black hole

43 minutes ago, swansont said:

You have no idea what saturated means in this context, do you?

Coming from two different definitions I found on  Google. The atoms acquired enough wave energy, changed its state, and stays.

Quote

Energy and intensity are not the same thing.

Light with a higher frequency generally has more energy when interacting with matters.

Quote

Absorbing from multiple directions destroys the cooling effect. You want an atom to absorb a photon that opposes its motion.

Right, you are trying to force the atoms to absorb the wave energy, although I am skeptical about how you keep the atoms stationary. You see the cloud(water vapor), it is stationary, it does not move around from sun light.

P.S. Where do you get the material that generates gamma radiation? Perhaps from radioactive materials

55 minutes ago, swansont said:

Fact of the matter is that when we do the final cooling stage in our fountains, we turn the intensity down to get colder temperatures.

That is interesting, perhaps the atoms are saturated with photons.
 

Quote

 

“goes into stimulated emission”? Stimulated emission has a velocity?

WTH are you talking about?

 

You need a frequency wave(light wave) that has enough intensity to hack in enough photons into the sodium atoms without damaging the structure(somewhere from x rays to gamma rays). Coincidentally, having more directions of the light source helps the atoms absorb the light better. But it does not matter which direction the light is coming from, it does not make atoms absorb the photons better so as long as it is coming from 2 or three different angles it should be alright(does not need to be orthogonal).

I was worried that the atoms would move around when they are hit by the laser, but it seems that would not happen. If it is an electron laser it might be different, but we are using photons. Clearly a gas hit by visible sun light does not move around.

2 hours ago, studiot said:

I can't see how you can learn much engineering without learning and understanding a good deal of Physics.

Simple things like the difference between a Force and a Pressure.
Simple things like a fluid going round a corner or bend in a pipeline exerts a force that can be sufficient to need thrustblocks.
Failure to understand this and use these can have spectacular results as the engineers who flooded Harrow Hill in London with bentonite found out.

Well, failing is the mother of success

2 hours ago, swansont said:

This does not follow. The photons have to be the right photons (correct frequency, direction, etc.) in order to cool.

Hmm, it says here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absorption_(electromagnetic_radiation)

 "Although the absorption of waves does not usually depend on their intensity (linear absorption), in certain conditions (optics) the medium's transparency changes by a factor that varies as a function of wave intensity, and saturable absorption (or nonlinear absorption) occurs."

Also, let's say a light wave hits a sodium atom and it goes into stimulated emission. I do not see the sodium atoms bounce around as that happens because of stimulated emission's velocity.

Perhaps you guys are hacking the atoms with a higher intensity waves coming from different directions.

1 hour ago, studiot said:

I can't see how you can learn much engineering without learning and understanding a good deal of Physics.

Simple things like the difference between a Force and a Pressure.
Simple things like a fluid going round a corner or bend in a pipeline exerts a force that can be sufficient to need thrustblocks.
Failure to understand this and use these can have spectacular results as the engineers who flooded Harrow Hill in London with bentonite found out.

Pressure is something exerted on an area

20 minutes ago, swansont said:

Have you ever considered learning physics?

LOL, I am looking at things more from an engineering perspective, I will learn more Physics from you guys when I have time  

P.S. Thanks for helping me arrive at the truth, I would have been content with the magnetic field idea, because you know, the fastest way to stop/slow an atom is to confine it at a magnetic field. But since Swanson kept pushing it just sort of leads on to the final conclusion.

P.S. Anyway, now I would confine the atoms in a place with a magnetic field so that it does not touch glass/plastic barrier to reheat itself, then bombard it with x ray/gamma ray, I think scattering wouldn't matter as long as you hack enough photons into the atoms.

P.S. And I apologize if I seem slow/stubborn at getting things

2 hours ago, studiot said:

Fair enough if you are only considering linear momentum.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood,  as Fred keeps reintroducing angular motion even after repeated telling that this is irrelevent.

 

Certainly my thoughts are that if you allow scattering before the impact of the photons ther is no point in using a laser

You seemed to imply this when you wrote, perhaps I misunderstood again.

Further I don't see that scattering after the impact is relevent since any change to the target's momentum will already have occurred.

 

So why is scattering not a red herring ?

Hmm, perhaps you are hacking the sodium atoms with more than enough photons then it could handle(getting into a stimulated emission state). The more photons they get, the colder then get. Because the whole getting hotter as it moves faster does not make sense, cuz imagine moving at the speed of light. The light scattering is because you want to keep the atoms at the same spot acting as a magneto-optic cage. If the light scatters around the atoms would bounce around in this cage, I dunno if it would absorb enough photons to turn into BEC in this case.

20 hours ago, swansont said:

You have no clue what the myriad problem with x-rays are, even though the information has been presented. Some of it is in the blurb you posted about laser cooling.

The steps are not optional, and are fairly specific. If you don’t follow the instructions, you don’t get the result.

Well, x ray requires a different refraction index then visible light waves, so a mirror would not reflect x rays.

15 minutes ago, swansont said:

You want the light going to the atoms in a collimated beam, so what does scattering it in all directions get you?

Right that is true = =, it would turn into something messy, shouldn't they have fixed the problem for x rays by now so they all go in the same direction? My idea is a really long vacuum tube, the light going in other directions will get filtered out while only the one going straight will stay. There is probably a simple way to fix it like a mirror or something. Below is from Google @@

59 minutes ago, swansont said:

Yes. If you have to ask, or think a filter would work, you don’t understand what’s going on.

Something like an optical filter, but the light could be scattered meaning it goes in all random directions like a shot gun. You're saying this won't work because it is scattered?

Quote

Can you see how the slowing takes a half a meter, so a lower scatter rate or momentum of the photon by more than a factor of 2 means you can’t do this in a 1 meter system? (so a momentum a factor of tens of thousands smaller means this is impossible for RF)

Yes, I've known for a long time you cannot apply RF in this system since the post I mentioned x ray = =, but thanks still

Quote

780 is in the infrared, and flashlights are not single-frequency 

Does it have to be the same frequency @@? It would be easy to apply a filter though

55 minutes ago, studiot said:

Does it ?

Take a ball such as the Earth, which has a spin about its axis and a rotation in the plane of the ecliptic.

All rotations are planar motions so adding or subtracting momentum perpendicular to this plane make no difference to the rotation ie no braking effect for 2 of the four possible directions.

Also 'tapping' the Earth at the north and south poles, along the line of the spin axis does not affect the spin.

That leaves 4 direction out of 6 as I said.

 

Have you not mentioned spin reduction here ?

 

Then how do you propose we slow down the rotation of the atoms = =? Or does it not matter for laser cooling?

P.S. I was thinking the stimulated emission recoil would brake(atomic friction) it, I could be wrong

P.S. For instance I got a rotating metal ball, I use a magnet to push it on both sides, it would slow down right? But such might not apply on an atomic scale

1 hour ago, studiot said:

 

You keep mentioning "all 6 directions" as though 6 was some magic number.

 

Do you not realise the basic mechanics that momentum directed along 2 of those 6 directions cannot affect spin?

You are just throwing things out without thinking them through.

Tapping on 6 sides has a brake effect on the CoM motion of the atoms, I said rotation(CoM motion) not spin.

P.S. Would it have a brake effect @@? This is a bit of a speculation