hoola

a positive test result would offer some ideas as to the coupling feature between dark energy and local matter, speaking of which, do you think dark energy and virtual particles are the same phenomena? edd

didn't einstein have a friend who did the heavy lifting on some of the math work in his early career? As a child riding his bicycle in italy, there was little overt math involved......yet his imagination machine was started there with concepts of riding a beam of light....and what about examining the processes that created the maths? You can't use math to analyse something that existed before math existed......at some point physics will have to be supplanted with philosophy......unless and until a pre-mathematical language can be deduced, a sort of "logic-latin" that was used to develop logic and act as a supporting creator of the maths, and then was either abandoned as a "dead" language, or was subsumed into proper mathematics.....edd

if this logic latin was subsumed within mathematics, then some artifact of it's existence may be evident in the present day maths....like a sort of CMB in the theoretical framework of the maths.

when a fellow came to tune my piano, he told me that the ear hears pitches inaccurately as the frequency goes up....so the maths being perfect in relationship would sound off to the ear, this according to Mr. Crowell. I can't remember which way he said that the ear perceives the higher frequencies, either as flat or sharp, but he said that he had to compensate for this to get a proper tune....and that the frequency counter he had hooked up did not do the whole job of establishing the final tuning.....does this "sound" right to you?......edd

fantastic !! thank you so much ajb.....even if quantum effects overwhelm a proton's short-term interaction with gravity, perhaps a series of long term tests would give an averaged (or classical) output, indicating some residual interaction between the nucleon and gravity with quantifiable results.....edd

excellent !! I will troupe up to my favorite bookstore and get the Tegmark book. Looks like the stolen greek columns haven't been washed away yet, figuratively or literally......edd

very interesting enthalpy as to the vacuum caps !....perhaps the dielectric in these units are the virtual particles, or dark energy as it is sometimes referred to....as I think they are direct equivalents.....if true, by knowing the permittivity of the vacuum capacitor, you are really having a new understanding of one property of the dark energy phenomena.....edd

"Electric charge is an excess or a deficit of electrons relative to the number of protons in a material" .....seems to me that the charge relates to the number of electrons in one plate as compared to the number of electrons in the other plate. The protons being safely sequestered within the nucleus, and out of capacitor functioning dynamics. "Electrons need to flow in or out of the material for it to have a charge".....well, a fully charged 40 mfd 450V electrolytic capacitor will remain charged, disconnected and sitting on the bench, much to the surprise to someone coming along to pick it up....electrons need to flow in or out in order to create, dissipate or increase a charge, not for it to have a charge. " The slight displacement of electrons in a material dielectric requires a force (the electric field) and is a form of potential energy, but is not a charge." a form of potential energy is the charge in the case of the capacitor......whether or not the charge is stored in the dielectric, a charge field, or on the plates, or all 3 is a good question, but seems to me that if there were some stored potential energy within the dielectric, it would add to overall energy output as field collapse occurs as the capacitor gets discharged.....where else would it go? Heat perhaps?....edd

So another urban legend is getting sick, but not quite dead.....edd

actually my toilet has an interesting flush pattern. The normal CCW overall vortex begins upon flushing, but as the flush continues, the body of water get a swollen area that manifests itself as rather substantial and begins to bob up and down in a rather interesting fashion. It is an old school 5 gal flush, which I picked up at a salvage yard when I needed a new toilet as I don't like the new 1.6 gal ones...I have never seen this pattern in a toilet flush before, as I pay attention to such things, it being uniquely patterned and very consistent. My cat loves to watch the water swirl and and then slop side to side in an oscillatory fashion. I propose a test for all persons coming to this thread, using a standard 5 gal toilet, since they have no active elements to skew the swirl pattern, and give a CW or CCW report and include whether they live in the upper or lower hemisphere...maybe someone in equador with a house straddling the equator will offer an answer to my original query.....I am on the side of the coriolis effect as the "initilizer" of the preferred direction of rotation. Unless toilets sold in respective hemispheres have a built-in bias with an angle to the jets of one way or another, of which I seriously doubt, than the coriolis effect actively affecting toilets legend lives on.....edd

I thought that the firing voltage with even a small neon lamp was 70.7V.......you can buy 12V neon lamps for the car, but they have a small step-up power supply included in the lamp assembly.....edd

coriolis force is not responsible for the toilet in my north american home running CCW? That is remarkable. I do have a question related to the phenomena, regardless of cause. If I were on the exact equator and flushed a toilet, which way would it rotate? Would there be a rotation sometimes CW, sometimes CCW, sometimes straight down, with no rotation? I would think straight down......edd

I thought I remembered reading that in a dielectric, the orbits of the electrons of the atoms in the dielectic material would be elongated by the field and the charge would be stored in the amount of elongation in those orbits.....I didn't think much of it at the time, but that explanation didn't seem correct at least in some cases such as air gap. The energy stored in the electric field sounds more likely...but how is that field sustained without an accordant number of electrons sitting on the negative plate? So, isn't the field more a resultant of the stored energy, than the actual storage mechanism?...edd

I have always heard that the energy stored in a capacitor is within the dielectric, and not stored on the plates. What about an air gap capacitor? Is the air between the plates storing charge? Seems that normal convection currents within the area of an old school tuning cap would make the oscillator unsteady and stations would drift, so it seems it doesn't hold true. What if the plates were in a vacuum? Then where would the charge stay? Seems there is some charge storage capability in the plates, but a minor amount, Large values can only be stored in a dielectric material, or so it would seem.....edd

as to the harmonic being heard when playing two notes on one violin and not hearing it (as much) when the same two notes are played on the two separate violins, the physical coupling between the note generators on a single instrument is tighter, especially in lower overtones. enhancing audibility. The overtone is then echoed from within the instrument, a small chamber acting as an amplifier. In two instruments, the separation dis-allows close coupling. The overtone is (almost completely) expressed in the air and so gets diffused. If the violins were to be physically connected (double-neck violin), or if the room that the two separate instruments played in were extremely small, that would somewhat replicate the one violin harmonic sound....I think this coupling is almost all through the bridge, to the body, and back to the bridge, with some resonant energy of the overtone coming out of the f holes.. some small coupling is through the bow......ed

a good test of this is to get two bows and play the separate notes on the one violin and mic the output. Compare with a single bow play of the same two notes as a control.......edd

I suppose that real ferrofluid is available from a supplier somewhere....that would be fun to play around with....I understand the ferrofluid conducts heat away from the voice coil in a speaker....it would be interesting to take a standard large speaker, like a woofer and inject the fluid into the voice coil gap and see how it perform.....perhaps the large excursions would make the fluid viscosity dampen movement that doesn't affect the tweeter.....edd

my idea of why a neutron might not respond to gravity in a normal fashion is that the virtual particle soup within the vacuum instills a sort of "brownian motion" to the vacuum that overwhelms any weak force, such as gravity.....given this, a test should show a slow movement downward due to a "viscosity" from the virtual particles....edd

right, a free neutron would decay, so a proton then?

Do unbound nucleons zip around at the speed of light in nature? Couldn't a proton or some other suitable candidate be laser cooled to arrest motion for a test? Thank you so much for your time.....I will check out cryo as a start to understand the problems prohibiting a test. It is beginning to look like a test might be impossible at this time.....edd

sorry, I misspoke, read corrected entry,.....edd

I can see an answer to my corrected question without your answering it ......but I would like to hear your answer....edd

the weak force is between the neucleons.....why would that matter to the interaction between a single nucleon and gravity?......thanks again, edd

? ....it seems an average of weak measurements should answer the question with certainty.....edd

fred, go ahead and post the cliff notes on the idea....it seems to me that the asteroid belt might be the result of a lagrangian point where the leftover planetesimal material collected during solar system beginnings and is not a result of a major collision .....I haven't looked deeply into the subject, but seems interesting.....edd

a neutron is not a classical object? Remarkable.....so a nucleon with a known mass is not a classical object....so, the question must be re-written to read....do non-classical single entities such as a neutron in a vacuum respond to gravity in similiar fashion to a standard classic object such as an apple in a vacuum....thank you for your patience and quick response.....edd

yes, ignorance is the mother of mis-invention.....let's ignore the "speculative" entanglement derived gravity fable and please answer me a simple question as to a neutron in a vacuum chamber. Does it obey the same newtonian laws and fall at the same speed as an apple in a vacuum? Thanks, edd

I have a few generalized questions as to what particles and under what conditions a proposed entanglement derived gravity test could be performed. I am not clear as to if the photon or the electron have any mass. If they do not have mass, or have such a small amount so as to rule them out as best candidates, what particle would be a good choice for a test? The proton would be a probable candidate, I presume, with a well established mass. Before I begin the entanglement, if I have the protons within the isolated vacuum bottles, will the protons respond to the earth's gravity field and fall towards the bottom of the vessels? If they were in a electrically neutral bottle, I presume they would by not being repelled or attracted to any interior surface. The only force left would be gravity. Since the test has the two protons far apart, charge repulsion should not be a factor. Even so, perhaps an uncharged particle such as a neutron should be used. I am not clear if neutrons can be entangled. I have heard of electrons and photons being entangled. Lets presume they can be entangled and a test is set up. They have a known mass. In a control test, they are left un-entangled, and released in the middle of the containers. They should begin to move straight downwards. So, the main test will be to have two entangled neutrons, one each in the center of the two containers, and if they are responding to entanglement derived gravity, they will move in a general downward fashion, but angling towards each other in their trajectories. If the earth's gravity would overwhelm any clear observation of trajectory variations from the weak gravity via entanglement, the experiment might have to be done in a micro-gravity climate such as the ISS. Question: In the control test of the unentangled neutrons, would the speed of the fall of the neurons mirror gallileo's test and show them dropping at the same speed as a macroscopic object in a vacuum?

of course, if the test were to give a positive result that indicates gravity is a function of entanglement, while explaining the mechanics of gravity, it does not explain the underlying entanglement feature.....but would be a good start for that research. Plus, I would think it would bolster the "everything is information" idea...... edd

in keeping with the linguistic TOE thread topic, does this qualify?......1. There are reasons for a thing to happen and reasons for a thing not to happen. 2. If there are more reasons for a thing to happen than to not happen, it will happen. 3. If there are more reasons for a thing to not happen, than for it to happen, it won't happen........ have a happenin christmas.....edd

a point of clarification is in order to compare the synthetic void within the machine, and the natural void that exists outside the normal bounds of the universe....they are the same. Each are regions of "clean" chaos. Any two things of identical informational description are the same, and any two things with no informational content are the same. Another universe can naturally pop up only outside of our universe, as there is no area devoid of information within our universe. Any information would disallow the chaos noise floor to deliver an uncorrupted logic output data stream. Any logic spontaneously arising from a quasi-void (deep space) would quickly be informationaly altered, probably by dark energy, and would end in perhaps some small expression of energies, but no sustained logic construction. Perhaps some of the puzzling reports of high energies appearing out of areas with no evidence as to their origin, could be these "corrupted proto-universes" arising in a quasi-void region, in a spontaneous brief appearance, and then collapse...there could be a zoo variety of these events as the collapse would ensue differently with differing random inputs of contamination altering the logic set, causing differing energies, frequencies and event durations in collapse output....edd

please change the above to read as ....or one graviton...as exchanged between briefly entangled particles. (The edit button does not appear to me for some reason, so I have to edit it here)....edd

A possible test of the entanglement as gravity causation would be to entangle 2 particles, then separate them into isolation chambers positioned some distance apart, measuring the positions of each particle. If there is a gravitational element to the entaglement feature, the positions of each particle should move towards each other within their chambers due to the gravitational effects. A movement of the particles should be of the accelerative nature of gravity's constant. If the entanglement is deliberately broken, the movement rate of each particle will become linear at that point, proceeding at a constant pace in the same trajectory with simple inertia...edd