BSc Biochemistry - Can I get directly entry into PhD?

[GeneticEngineer]

I'm gonna enroll into a BSc Genetics,Microbiology and Biochemistry next year after completing my last year of school and then move to MSc Microbiology and wanna do post doctoral research into virology and genetics.

What I want to know is that, is there anyway for me to get directly into the PhD program if I score first class honours(Above 70% aggregate into my BSc) or would I HAVE TO do the masters to learn more into Microbiology?<Which is what I'm more Inclining on.

 

 

Yes I am aiming high. I just wanna get in a lab and do research. Just love the idea. 5 years is a long time.

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Edited March 5, 2015 by GeneticEngineer

[ajb]

It may depend on place to place, but generally you do not need a masters degree to enter a PhD program. I do not know specifics of your field, however, I get the impression more and more places are expecting some postgraduate study and a masters could be useful in order to try to distinguish yourself from other applicants.

[GeneticEngineer]

Yeah I guess that would be helpful. 5 years it is.

[CharonY]

Some clarification, postdoctoral research is after having a PhD (i.e. it is not a program, more like a waiting list). Whether you are getting admitted to a PhD program with a bachelor depends a lot on the school (and country). Some allow it, with an honour's degree high GPA and letter of recommendation, for example. The requirements will vary but you should look at the requirements.

 

Often, additional credits have to be taken during the program. In countries or schools where it is rare faculty may be more reluctant to take you on, though (mostly more true for training-intensive labs).

You should also consider what kind of jobs you are looking at after PhD as that may also have an impact on your choice.

[GeneticEngineer]

Some clarification, postdoctoral research is after having a PhD (i.e. it is not a program, more like a waiting list). Whether you are getting admitted to a PhD program with a bachelor depends a lot on the school (and country). Some allow it, with an honour's degree high GPA and letter of recommendation, for example. The requirements will vary but you should look at the requirements.

 

Often, additional credits have to be taken during the program. In countries or schools where it is rare faculty may be more reluctant to take you on, though (mostly more true for training-intensive labs).

You should also consider what kind of jobs you are looking at after PhD as that may also have an impact on your choice.

Virologist mainly./Edit or Microbiologist or....I don't know I honestly don't know right now. Just getting out of high school. Still have to get into this field and learn a lot. I'm just excited.

Edited March 5, 2015 by GeneticEngineer

[CharonY]

Virologist is a job description (or field), but not a job per se. You should look around and see what kind of positions there are. Unfortunately, academic and research institute positions are highly competitive and one should have a plan B in place.

[GeneticEngineer]

Well at first I wanted to delve into Genetics and go in depth with Genetic Engineering but I don't know...

I don't really see a progress until the next 50 -100 years, could be totally wrong but gene modification is not even a thing yet. Totally love both fields and biology/biochem in general. Have no idea where I wanna go really. I'd learn all if it was up to me. Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely look more into this.

[ajb]

Well at first I wanted to delve into Genetics and go in depth with Genetic Engineering but I don't know...

I would say not to worry too much about this. Do your undergraduate degree first and you will be exposed to all kinds of things, your interests may change or quite likely you could become interested in things you don't known exists right now.

[CharonY]

That is a good point. However, especially in the US I found that degrees are often seen as an investment of sorts. While I do not necessarily agree, it is good to have an initial focus, even if it may shift over time.

[GeneticEngineer]

That is a good point. However, especially in the US I found that degrees are often seen as an investment of sorts. While I do not necessarily agree, it is good to have an initial focus, even if it may shift over time.

Right, well I'm not really from...well from any place that has a good research institute. I'm from a small island. I still don't know where I'm going to apply for my BSc. Does it actually matter? Where I got from degrees from?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauritius

 

See for yourself. Zero scientific research, except for plants and agriculture and marine biology,both of which I'm neither interested in nor want to pursue a career into.

[ajb]

I still don't know where I'm going to apply for my BSc. Does it actually matter? Where I got from degrees from?

Technically it could do. Your degree needs to be recognised by the place you hope to use it to do your PhD. I personally have not come across any problems like that.

[Arete]

I recently went through the process of hiring my first PhD student. I'm based at a mid size research university in the USA.

 

1) As far as the university administration is concerned, all that goes into a financial guarantee of TA funding is a combination of GPA (grade point average from your undergraduate degree) and GRE (Graduate Record Examination) scores. So theoretically, you could secure a PhD position straight out of your undergraduate degree, and I know of many students who have done this.

 

2) The second step is to find an adviser who is willing to offer you a place in their lab. The requirements here vary widely from lab to lab - some professors like being able to train a student from scratch rather than having to untrain bad habits from past experience, but the majority (including myself) like to see some evidence of prior research ability and expertise. If you have a MSc and a publication or two, it would put you head and shoulders above students without those things in terms of getting into competitive labs.

 

3) I'd really assess why you want a PhD, and how much of a hurry you are to get there. A PhD is a starting, rather than an end point - think of it like a scientific apprenticeship or traineeship. Do you just want letters after your name, or do you want to be a professor, or are you just marking time because you can't think of anything better to do? If you're after a career in the private sector, 5 years of on the job experience might be worth a lot more than a PhD in terms of job security and salary.

 

In the end, it's all competitive and you have a long way to go before you need to make a decision. One thing to keep in mind is that the minimum GPA required to get into the school I'm at is 3.6 - so study hard and enjoy the time you have to explore and learn along the way.

 

Good luck!

Edited March 7, 2015 by Arete

[GeneticEngineer]

I recently went through the process of hiring my first PhD student. I'm based at a mid size research university in the USA.

 

1) As far as the university administration is concerned, all that goes into a financial guarantee of TA funding is a combination of GPA (grade point average from your undergraduate degree) and GRE (Graduate Record Examination) scores. So theoretically, you could secure a PhD position straight out of your undergraduate degree, and I know of many students who have done this.

 

2) The second step is to find an adviser who is willing to offer you a place in their lab. The requirements here vary widely from lab to lab - some professors like being able to train a student from scratch rather than having to untrain bad habits from past experience, but the majority (including myself) like to see some evidence of prior research ability and expertise. If you have a MSc and a publication or two, it would put you head and shoulders above students without those things in terms of getting into competitive labs.

 

3) I'd really assess why you want a PhD, and how much of a hurry you are to get there. A PhD is a starting, rather than an end point - think of it like a scientific apprenticeship or traineeship. Do you just want letters after your name, or do you want to be a professor, or are you just marking time because you can't think of anything better to do? If you're after a career in the private sector, 5 years of on the job experience might be worth a lot more than a PhD in terms of job security and salary.

 

In the end, it's all competitive and you have a long way to go before you need to make a decision. One thing to keep in mind is that the minimum GPA required to get into the school I'm at is 3.6 - so study hard and enjoy the time you have to explore and learn along the way.

 

Good luck!

My two main reasons for a PhD at the moment is securing a better job(don't wanna end up cleaning lab equipment with a BSc) and to progress further into research really. I just..love..science and really wanna advance, research and learn more in areas such as gene manipulation, using virus as delivery system for compounds and ensuing permanence of such compound/drugs in the body(Nootropics for e.g) and just a lot more and without a PhD not much for me in here. Really appreciate the advice! And I'm not aiming anything below a 95%+ so that's a 4.0. Coming from a small island off nowhere, I really gotta excel and get up there.

[CharonY]

If job security is an issue, a research career, including academic one is probably not the best way to go. Unless you are extremely well networked you would have to deal with employment uncertainty at least until your ~40s. While there are also research positions in companies, they tend to be relatively rare and also more focused on development rather than discovery.

[GeneticEngineer]

If job security is an issue, a research career, including academic one is probably not the best way to go. Unless you are extremely well networked you would have to deal with employment uncertainty at least until your ~40s. While there are also research positions in companies, they tend to be relatively rare and also more focused on development rather than discovery.

What would you suggest I go into then?

[Arete]

My two main reasons for a PhD at the moment is securing a better job(don't wanna end up cleaning lab equipment with a BSc) and to progress further into research really.

 

 

This isn't meant to depress or discourage you, although the facts are a little depressing - I just recently participated in a seminar about alternative careers for PhD graduates -

 

• Around 40% of people who graduate with a STEM PhD immediately leave science altogether. I've met/known PhD graduates who go into unrelated government positions, become park rangers, even a guy who graduated from a marine biology PhD and opened a winery.
• Around 15% of people who graduate with a STEM PhD immediately get a job in science outside of academia - e.g. industry consultants, reps and sales staff biotech companies, etc. Usually these aren't primary research roles.
• The rest (45%) go into postdocs.

For postdocs:

• Around 50% will eventually leave science altogether. I've met/known postdocs who became investment bankers, master brewers, teachers, adjunct teaching professors, etc.
• Around 17% will find a non-academic research position in private industry or government.
• Around 18% will end up in non-tenured academic research positions - lab managers, research associates, etc.
• Around 15% will end up as tenured faculty.

What I think CharonY and I are trying to say is the a PhD isn't a golden ticket to a fulfilling and lucrative career, and ultimately the odds of one leading to a career in scientific research at all are considerably less than 50%. There are A LOT of very disillusioned PhD students and postdocs who have worked extremely hard to get where they are, only to realize that they ultimately have no job prospects in science to show for it.

 

I'm definitely not saying under no circumstances aspire to do a PhD, but go in knowing that the stats aren't in favor of you being a scientist, and have a plan B lined up in case it doesn't work out.

Edited March 9, 2015 by Arete

[GeneticEngineer]

Alright, fair enough. Scary stats but that's not stopping me. I do have a plan B already in progress. In 5 years if you're still around, I'll let you know know how it went. Thanks everyone.