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It from bit? Does John Wheeler was right?


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#1 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 02:49 AM

John Wheeler-brilliant scientist died 3 months ago.
I would like talking about contradictory part his legacy written in the J. A. Wheeler, It from bit, At Home in the Universe, American Institute of Physics, New York, 1994, pp. 295–311.
But first of all i want reminding some quotation from other book,"Geons,black holes & quantum foam" John Archibald Wheeler's autobiography with Kenneth Ford Norton, 1998
Wheeler summarizes his work as follows:
"I think of my lifetime in physics as divided
into three periods. In the first period,
extending from the beginning of my career until
the early 1950's, I was in the grip of the idea
that Everything Is Particles. I was looking for
ways to build all basic entities - neutrons,
protons, mesons, and so on - out of the lightest,
most fundamental particles, electrons, and
photons. This same vision of a world of simple
particles dominated my work with Feynman.
We were able to formulate electrodynamics in
terms of particles acting at a distance on one
another without the need for intermediate
electric or magnetic fields. ...It did ... make a
most remarkable prediction about a
hypothetical world containing only a few
particles ... In such a simpler world, the
future would affect the past.
"I call my second period Everything Is Fields.
From the time I fell in love with general
relativity and gravitation in 1952 until late in
my career, I pursued the vision of a world made
of fields, one in which the apparent particles
are really manifestations of electric and
magnetic fields, gravitational fields, and
space-time itself.
"Now I am in the grip of a new vision, that
Everything Is Information. The more I have
pondered the mystery of the quantum and our
strange ability to comprehend this world
in which we live, the more I see possible
fundamental roles for logic and information
as the bedrock of physical theory. ...
I continue to search."
Geons, Black Holes & Quantum Foam - pp 63-64

I would like drew attention of Forum participants to last part of John Wheeler research.Does we get some confirmation about it?

I presented my simple interpretation John Wheeler's idea "It from Bit.If we rewriting some numbers(for examples: symmetries, dimensionless constants,different dimensions D=3,D=11,D=12, etc) from decimal code to the binary code and vice versa, we get more information."More is different".Quote from mentioned book P.341.

My confirmative posts:
1)Discrete and continue symmetries
2)What Wolfgang Pauli does mean?
3)Wonderful number 12 on the spectrum of elementary particles

We vill show that next decimal numbers in binary code:
3 to binary 11 as a sign of symmetry
11 to binary 1011 as a sign of metasymmetry
12 to binary 1100 as a sign of antysymmetry

John Wheeler book
At Home in the Universe (Masters of Modern Physics) (Paperback)
http://www.amazon.co...16585362&sr=1-4

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 22 July 2008 - 03:27 AM.
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#2 iNow

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Posted 22 July 2008 - 03:06 AM

I don't understand. What do you want to talk about? Thank you.
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#3 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 11:35 AM

I corrected my poor english,sorry...tri again

This is the address autobiographical book by John Wheeler
http://www.amazon.co...16810738&sr=1-2 http://www.amazon.co...16810738&sr=1-2
Especially advise you to pay attention to chapter 15. It from Bit, p.323 и 16.The End of Time,p344. Here it's very interesting discourse on the nature of Time.

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 23 July 2008 - 11:35 AM.
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#4 Mr Skeptic

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:45 PM

I don't understand. What do you want to talk about? Thank you.


He mostly talks to himself...
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#5 iNow

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 09:57 PM

I know. I was trying to give him a chance to fix that.
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#6 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 23 July 2008 - 10:00 PM

You too...
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#7 DonJStevens

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 01:07 PM

Hi Yuri,

We can talk much about John Wheeler if you like. His quote from the book "Gravitation" (by Misner, Thorne and Wheeler, page 1215) is quite interesting: "What else can a (subatomic) particle be but a fossil from the most violent event of all, gravitational collapse?" and later "That an electron here has the same mass as an electron there is also a triviality or a miracle. It is a triviality in quantum electrodynamics because it is assumed rather than derived. -- No acceptable explanation for the miraculous identity of particles of the same type has ever been put forward. That identity must be regarded, not as a triviality, but as a central mystery of physics."

An answer to this mystery seems to require quantized space-time and quantized energy: these may be the bits that make all that we observe.
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#8 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 03:16 PM

Lot of quotations from John Wheeler:
http://www.brainyquo..._a_wheeler.html
I used only his idea"It from Bit" together with Wolfgang Pauli "Division and reduction of symmetry." To me only this synthesis can be applicable.

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 27 July 2008 - 03:22 PM.

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#9 DonJStevens

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 03:52 PM

Hi Yuri,

Do you think the Planck length and Planck time relate to non reducible space-time bits? Do these quantities of space or time relate to any quantity that is physical?

An argument can be made that they do relate. What do you think?
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#10 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 27 July 2008 - 04:27 PM

An argument can be made that they do relate. What do you think?

I am afraid of difficulties to use notion "Time". John Wheeler's biographical book last chapter name "The End of Time,p.344".As David Gross say,because it doomed.I used only symmetry idea and some numerological trick in good sense.

To my mind all surprises waiting us from revision common view to Time.

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 27 July 2008 - 04:27 PM.
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#11 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:32 PM

As example for realization John Wheeler's idea "It from Bit" is Metasymmetry presented in thread "Discrete and Continue Symmetries"
http://www.sciencefo...ead.php?t=34145

One more interesting example "It from Bit" 240 minimal vectors
of the E8 root lattice.240 to binary 11110000.High rate antysmmetry

John Wheeler was right.His "It from Bit" - fruiful ful idea .He deserved name Great Visionary of 20-century,which he get inter vivos.

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 30 July 2008 - 11:34 PM.
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#12 Sayonara

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:40 PM

Apparently nobody else is going to ask this so I will: what does "it from bit" mean?
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The Dictionary is not a technical resource.


#13 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:48 PM

Apparently nobody else is going to ask this so I will: what does "it from bit" mean?

I guess you are not read John Wheeler's book "At Home in the Universe", nor the other "Geons, Black Holes & Quantum Foam."

Edited by Yuri Danoyan, 31 July 2008 - 02:00 PM.

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#14 Sayonara

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 01:50 PM

Wiki entry: http://en.wikipedia....ics#It_from_bit
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#15 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 02:05 PM

I now about it.Reference see my post http://www.sciencefo...ead.php?t=34145
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#16 Sayonara

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Posted 31 July 2008 - 02:41 PM

Yes, that link was for the other people reading this thread.
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#17 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 20 August 2008 - 05:21 PM

Pauli's idea about "Division and reduction the symmetry" see thread http://www.sciencefo...ead.php?t=34142
and Wheeler's idea "It from Bit" http://www.sciencefo...ead.php?t=34160
have common base.
Wheeler:"Tryihg to wrap my brain around idea of information theory as the basis of existence,i came ap with the phrase "it from bit".The universe and all that it contains("it") may arise from the myriad yes-no choices of mearusement(the"bits")".
"Information may not be just what we learn about the world.It may be what makes the world".
Quote as favourite saying "Less is more" Wheeler continued:"it is good principle of physics research.In thinking about the world in the large.As Philip Anderson told"More is different".When you put enough elementary units together,you can get something that is more than the sum of these units."More is different" may have something to do with "it from bit"

What mean Pauli?Pauli first of all thinking about division,about binary splitting of symmetry until end,for understanding nature of embryonic symmetry.But embryonic symmetry lead as the same binary relations "yes or no","0 or 1".That's i would like to say about common between Pauli an Wheeler ideas.
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#18 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 3 September 2008 - 10:43 AM

Eventually we must do choice between discrete approximation of continue,or vice versa,continue approximation of discrete.Computer- Internet discrete epoch dictates to as first version.
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#19 Yuri Danoyan

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Posted 6 September 2008 - 05:32 PM

Reminding about "It from bit".....
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#20 insane_alien

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Posted 6 September 2008 - 05:45 PM

if nobody is responding that means nobody is interested.
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