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HCL+KNO3 to make HNO3?


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#1 [w00t]

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 04:22 AM

hello, im intrested in making nitric acid from potassium nitrate and hydrochloric acid(30%)

would this process be possible?
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#2 rthmjohn

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:11 AM

hmm... I don't think that'll work considering that both of the reactants are ionic and completely soluble in water. Basically, if you mix the two, you'll just have a solution of H+, Cl-, K+, and NO3- ions floating around so to speak. And I don't think that there's a way to separate both the Cl- AND K+ ions from the solution either. I suppose you could remove the Cl- by adding AgNO3 which would form a solid AgCl which could then be filtered, but I don't think there's an effective way of removing potassium ions.
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#3 YT2095

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 10:23 AM

IIRC, you`ll end up making Nitrosyl Chloride too, Harsh stuff!
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#4 rthmjohn

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 11:05 AM

My bad... Could you perhaps use something like lead bicarbonate or nitrate? The lead would form solid lead chloride, right?
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#5 [w00t]

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 11:37 AM

hmm i say this because there no way of optaining Sulfuric Acid in Sydney, Australia.. atleast to my knowledge, seems like i wasted $10
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#6 RyanJ

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 12:29 PM

hmm i say this because there no way of optaining Sulfuric Acid in Sydney, Australia.. atleast to my knowledge, seems like i wasted $10


Do a search of the forums - car batteries should help you there :D

Cheers,

Ryan Jones
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#7 [w00t]

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 01:18 PM

Yea, i know it's in Car Batteries, but the it's difficult to find a used one on the street, and buying a new one costs a lot $60 AUD
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#8 RyanJ

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:11 PM

Yea, i know it's in Car Batteries, but the it's difficult to find a used one on the street, and buying a new one costs a lot $60 AUD


Hmm... that is quite expensive. Have a look at this, it may help you :-)

Cheers,

Ryan Jones
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#9 budullewraagh

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 02:13 PM

how could you make nitrosyl chloride? in addition, Cl- is a stronger conjugate base than NO3- so you won't get HNO3 from HCl
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#10 woelen

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Posted 10 December 2005 - 06:05 PM

The following reaction occurs, when nitric acid and hydrochloric acid are mixed. This also explains, why aqua regia needs a 1 : 3 molar ratio of HNO3 and HCl.

HNO3 + 3HCl --> ONCl + Cl2 + 2H2O

The precise reaction is much more complex, the equation above only is a net equation.

If you heat a mix of HNO3 and HCl (or KNO3 and HCl), then you'll see that the liquid becomes yellow, or even orange. That yellow/orange color is the color of NOCl. At high concentrations of HCl this is stable. At lower concentrations of HCl it hydrolyses:

ONCl + H2O <--> HNO2 + HCl
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#11 budullewraagh

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Posted 12 December 2005 - 11:05 PM

no need to explain what nitrosyl chloride is and how it's formed; i'm well aware. interesting how nitric acid acts as a base in that reaction. come to think of it, the fact that nitrate salts can perform the reaction isn't so surprising. i suppose the product of water when the acids are used would be replaced by potassium hydroxide when potassium nitrate is used?
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#12 [w00t]

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 06:41 AM

I just got Sulphuric acid from a local Auto shop..

46% pure 1L for $6.. looked cheap:)

Anyway to purify this, I would need to boil the water. Now to do this, it has to be done in a glass jar.. Could i use a normal "jam" glass jar(or a glass coke bottle?) or its going to break and spill acid all over the place? or does it have to be a proper, say a lab-grade flask?

Same question applys to preparing nitric acid (Using KNO3) except using 2 glass coke bottles attached by neck and distilling it thatway
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#13 YT2095

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 08:34 AM

Good heavens! DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER! using "jam jars" and "Coke bottles" for this!
you`ll end up Very sorry!

Borsilicate glass is the only sort worthy of such materials where heat is concerned, coke bottles are great pressure vessels, but won`t stand much heat, and jam jars can take a little heat but have far to many inperfections in them to take local heating effectively without breaking.
Pyrex casserole dishes or glass coffee carafs would work at a push but not recommended.
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#14 jdurg

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Posted 22 December 2005 - 07:19 PM

Yes, please do not use normal glass containers. When I did my sodium + iodine experiment to make NaI, I used a normal glass jar for the reaction chamber, and within a few seconds of heating it cracked spilling liquid iodine and a mass of sodium all over the place. It was a nasty mess to clean up.
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#15 stsanthony

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 08:48 AM

that is further away from chemistry, but that seems hilarious...have you guys "destroyed" any laboratory apparatus?
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#16 RyanJ

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 11:56 AM

that is further away from chemistry, but that seems hilarious...have you guys "destroyed" any laboratory apparatus?


There are always accidents, while dound an experiment with sugar and potassiun chlorate the test tube in which the reaction was occuring got so hot it started too crack :D

I'm shure the experts have better ones than that though :D

Cheers,

Ryan Jones
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#17 stsanthony

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 12:21 PM

they should have set a vacuum during the setup :P
this would prevent the cracking...
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#18 woelen

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 12:48 PM

Making HNO3 does not require vacuum distilling. Distilling at atmospheric pressure is better. With conc. H2SO4 and KNO3 or NaNO3 you can get 90% HNO3 without too much problem. I would not risk the destruction of a vacuum pump with the distillation of HNO3. It is very corrosive.

A word of warning though! Distilling HNO3 is not something for the inexperienced home chemist, who does some fun experiments occasionally. This requires ALL glass apparatus, any rubber connections and stoppers will be eaten away in seconds by hot 90% HNO3 and the fumes, produced when something cracks are intensely poisonous and corrosive.
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#19 jowrose

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 05:47 PM

going back to stsanthony's question of destroyed lab glass...

I was heating, oh, maybe 300 grams of potassium nitrate and sugar (to make smoke bombs, of course) and it ignited prematurely... needless to say the 1000 mL beaker was destroyed, and it took about an hour to get rid of all the smoke that was hovering around my basement.
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just mix it all together, something cool oughtta happen...

#20 akcapr

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Posted 2 January 2006 - 09:27 PM

Ive destroyed plenty of glassware in my time. If you distill HNO3 you wont die if you use rubber stoppers and such but they definately do literally melt. If you dont care about your rubber equipment go ahead and do it if your doing it for a very small amount. BUt generally dont do it its just stupid.
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