Joshua Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 As more maths are discovered, more applications are found. Increasingly, biology cannot be separated from math-- and hence, evolution cannot be separated from math. Everything from the way evolution of a creature is mapped (called phylogenics, see http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/clad/clad4.html ) to our understanding of how life and non-life might only be different in simple mathematical terms. What I'm saying here is that mathematics firmly SUPPORTS the ideas of evolution, not the other way round (refering to comments people have made that statistics show evolution is not possible). If you're not sure about this I recommend familiarizing yourself with many different maths (discrete math, algorithms and iterative maps, chaos theory, cellular automata). Armed with even a cursory understanding of these things, and perhaps some college level biology/genetics, one begins to see how amazingly SIMPLE life is, for all its complexity. Or rather, it is complexity born out of simplicity. If you want to see some this in action, you can peruse Stephen Wolframs "New Kind of Science" online, for free. http://www.wolframscience.com/nksonline/toc.html or read Ian Stewart's "Lifes Other Secret". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 Good post; we need more discussion of mathematical biology on here If you're interested in looking at applications of group theory, then mathematical biology has a lot to offer in terms of looking at symmetry groups and the like. I've just finished a course entitled "Modelling Nature's Non-linearity" - pretty much half of it was dedicated to animal gaits and modelling systems of coupled oscillators. On the downside, I now have a beasting assignment that needs to be done. Oh well, at least it has a question about modelling an animal with two legs at the back and one at the front Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted March 24, 2005 Author Share Posted March 24, 2005 Ah, yes. A dog named tripod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ophiolite Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 I've just finished a course entitled "Modelling Nature's Non-linearity" - pretty much half of it was dedicated to animal gaits and modelling systems of coupled oscillators.Does the latter relate to synchronicity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny5 Posted March 24, 2005 Share Posted March 24, 2005 If you really want to talk about evolution mathematically, you need to turn evolutionary biology into a deductive science. You need clear definitions, a few axioms, some undefined terms, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 If you really want to talk about evolution mathematically, you need to turn evolutionary biology into a deductive science. Read many evolutionary biology texts recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 25, 2005 Share Posted March 25, 2005 Does the latter relate to synchronicity? If I think what I think you mean by this term (I've never really heard the word used in the context of the course), then yes. Basically we studied systems of animal gaits, modelling them as systems of coupled oscillators and then went on to investigate their symmetry groups. Otherwise, no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny5 Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Read many evolutionary biology texts recently? Not recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Not recently. They're depressingly full of maths Don't even get me started on population biology texts. Holy cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Muahahaha. And whatnot. Yes, evolution is great fun. Especially Evolutionary Game Theory, that's a right laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny5 Posted March 29, 2005 Share Posted March 29, 2005 They're depressingly full of maths Don't even get me started on population biology texts. Holy cow. What is population biology? It sounds like what I think it is. Math + evolution is a good thing Evolution is a mathematical challenge, more than a biological one really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 population biology is concerned with the distribution of alleles (the different forms of the variouse genes) within a population, eg how many people posess the A blood type allele, how many posess the B blood type allele, o type allele etc -- and how the alleleic frequencies change over time. there are so many differnt factors involved in this that its possibly less fun than diahorreah. if any of you think that 'maths is fun', then you should have a go at it. you should be in paradice (either that or youl change your mind about math being fun). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted March 31, 2005 Share Posted March 31, 2005 there are so many differnt factors involved in this that its possibly less fun than diahorreah. Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it. I'm not so sure that population biology has much to do with what you stated though tbh; I've done models of population growth myself. A really simple one is quite spectacular, called the logistic map (I'm pretty sure people have heard of this:) [math]x_{n+1} = kx_n (1-x_n)[/math] I spent half my essay writing about this little formula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Hey, don't knock it till you've tried it. population biology or diarohheah? i'v tried both and like neither, although if i had to chose one, diohreahh would be my favorite I'm not so sure that population biology has much to do with what you stated though maybe im thinking of population genetics, but whatever it is is very complicated and not much fun atall! you maths guys might find it easyer, but for people who arent specifically trained in maths its a bit of a headache Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted April 1, 2005 Share Posted April 1, 2005 Population biology is more to do with the populations themselves rather than the alleles represented in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dak Posted April 3, 2005 Share Posted April 3, 2005 i guess i was thinking of population genetics then Good post; we need more discussion of mathematical biology on here considering how hard the maths in pop bio, pop genetics and phylogenetics is, im surprised you dont get more people coming in here for help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 Does the Dove/ Hawk game come under the umbrella of Evolutionary Biology? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 10, 2005 Share Posted April 10, 2005 I would assume so. It's a model that uses Evolutionary Game Theory to predict ESS's and whatnot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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