Another example of how Bush is making the world less safe.

[budullewraagh]

"Please expand on this. I don't know of their similar ancestry, except that conquest leads to interbreeding."

wow, read my above post.

 

"Hardly a sign of brotherlieness."

after the reconquest, their governments were very closely connected.

 

"I think that China had by far the greater influence on Korea."

cultural diffusion ring a bell? the peninsula was like a bridge from japan to china

 

"This last sentence says it all."

except you didn't quote a sentence. you quoted a fragment of a sentence. you aren't going to convince me by interpreting only portions of my statements.

[Aardvark]

absolutely. the chinese and koreans have similar ancestry. the chinese attempted to take back korea, successfully. they have had great influence upon one another throughout the ages. they fought side by side many times. remember what happened with mcarthur?

 

 

Firstly the Chinese and Koreans do not have similar ancestry. The Koreans are descended from Tungusic tribal peoples, they are a distinct racial and cultural and linguistic group.

 

I don't understand what you mean by 'take back Korea' Korea never was Chinese so how could it be taken back? China has fought many wars against Korea, wars of brutal aggression and expansionism. If you want references then check http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~mss1/history.html

or

http://myhome.shinbiro.com/~mss1/history.html

 

The only time China can be said to have stood by Korea was in the Korean war. Not an act of brotherlyness. A powerplay between communism and capitalism.

 

Yes, China has had great influence on Korea, that does not make them brothers, rather Korea has had to struggle to survive and maintain its distinct identity.

 

You make note that Koreans are recognised as an ethnic minority in China and that China has repeatedly mlitarily intervened in Korea. Quite how this evidence is supposed to back up any claim of brotherly feelings between the two nations is, at best, highly obscure.

 

You say that you provided historical evidence and that i did not. Well, you did not, you simply stated an opinion. If you look at the history of Korea you will see that it is one of struggle against larger more powerful neighbours, esp China.

 

If China has such feelings of solidarity with Koreans why are Koreans in China so badly treated?

http://www.cecc.gov/pages/roundtables/041904/index.php

http://www.unrefugees.org/archives.cfm?ID=1375&cat=Archives

http://www.unrefugees.org/archives.cfm?ID=1362&cat=Archives

http://www.unrefugees.org/archives.cfm?ID=1255&cat=Archives

http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/asa/china?Open

[Cadmus]

the Chinese and Koreans do not have similar ancestry. The Koreans are descended from Tungusic tribal peoples, they are a distinct racial and cultural and linguistic group.

Yes, culturally, racially, and linguistically, they are very different. THe Koreans did borrow heavily from the Chinese.

 

This is an excellent post, in my opinion.

 

the peninsula was like a bridge from japan to china

This is true, but you have the direction in reverse.

[budullewraagh]

"Firstly the Chinese and Koreans do not have similar ancestry. The Koreans are descended from Tungusic tribal peoples, they are a distinct racial and cultural and linguistic group."

check my sources. plus we have to realize that the chinese of the huang he river valley were among the first civilizations ever, and the first in asia (aside from the sumer and perhaps the indus civ, but those were waaay far away)

 

"I don't understand what you mean by 'take back Korea' Korea never was Chinese so how could it be taken back?"

check my sources...

 

"The only time China can be said to have stood by Korea was in the Korean war. Not an act of brotherlyness. A powerplay between communism and capitalism."

check my sources...

 

"Yes, China has had great influence on Korea, that does not make them brothers, rather Korea has had to struggle to survive and maintain its distinct identity."

check what i am defending and my sources...

 

"China has repeatedly mlitarily intervened in Korea."

...yes...that supports my statement

 

"Well, you did not"

yes i did...check my posts

 

"If China has such feelings of solidarity with Koreans why are Koreans in China so badly treated?"

if americans in general arent racist against those of african descent, why do some of african descent get lynched by the kkk every so often?

 

"Yes, culturally, racially, and linguistically, they are very different. THe Koreans did borrow heavily from the Chinese."

no, that is simply false

 

"This is true, but you have the direction in reverse."

have you ever gone over a bridge but found that you could not go back over it when you wanted to return? your point is absurd

[Cadmus]

plus we have to realize that the chinese of the huang he river valley were among the first civilizations ever, and the first in asia (aside from the sumer and perhaps the indus civ, but those were waaay far away)

I agree. However, I see this in no way supporting, or even being relevant to, your point.

 

"Yes, culturally, racially, and linguistically, they are very different. THe Koreans did borrow heavily from the Chinese."

no, that is simply false

Which part do you consider false, or do you disagree with all of it? Do you have other evidence than to demand that we check your seemingly non-existent sources?

 

"This is true, but you have the direction in reverse."

have you ever gone over a bridge but found that you could not go back over it when you wanted to return? your point is absurd

I have no idea your point might be, so I will just assume that you have none. I do find it humerous that you preface your labeling my statement absurd with a meaningless statement of your own. Your use of the word absurd makes me think that you are getting upset because we don't agree with you. Perhaps you think that you are an expert on Asia, and that if others of us who also think that we are knowledgeable on Asia disagree with you that you should try to use words like absurd to show us how well you can argue. To me, it seems as though you really do not understand what you are arguing. Your only defense seems to be to demand that people check your irrelevant or non-existent sources.

[budullewraagh]

"I agree. However, I see this in no way supporting, or even being relevant to, your point."

it ties back to my point that the chinese and koreans come from the same background.

 

"Which part do you consider false, or do you disagree with all of it? Do you have other evidence than to demand that we check your seemingly non-existent sources?"

are you blind? i have sources. check in my previous posts. the koreans borrowed from chinese culture and the chinese borrowed from korean culture. the japanese borrowed from chinese and korean culture and the koreans and chinese borrowed from japanese culture. culturally racially and linguisticly, the chinese and koreans are similar.

 

"I have no idea your point might be"

there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

[Cadmus]

there are none as blind as those who refuse to see

Now you understand what we are dealing with.

 

it ties back to my point that the chinese and koreans come from the same background.

How does your statement that relates only to the Chinese culture have any relationship at all to the Korean culture?

 

are you blind?

Are you serious?

 

i have sources. check in my previous posts.

Your sources are either not relevant, such as your point about the Yellow River valley, or are otherwise not convincing. Surely you realize from the reaction that you have been getting that your arguments are not convincing.

 

the koreans borrowed from chinese culture and the chinese borrowed from korean culture. the japanese borrowed from chinese and korean culture and the koreans and chinese borrowed from japanese culture. culturally racially and linguisticly, the chinese and koreans are similar.

I contend that the Chinese were the major source of cultural developments, and that Korea and Japan borrowed much more heavily from China than the other way around. I would think that you agree, given your statement about the Yellow River civilization. However, it seems that you do not. Yes, there are many similarities in culture, due mostly to the outward reach of the civilization of the Yellow River valley. Linguisitically, I am not sure what you are saying. Korean and Japanese have borrowed heavily from China. Therefore, in this sense, there are many similarities. In the same way, English borrowed heavily from French and Latin. Here again there are similarities. However, there are important fundamental differences between English and French, despite the similarities. The linguistic differences between Chinese, Korean, and Japanese are far, far greater than the differences between French and English. Therefore, although I agree that they are similar, in the sense that I do not think that there is zero similarity at all, I think that you are claiming a far greater degree of similarity than I am. Please provide any examples of Chinese lingistic borrowing from Japanese or Korean, other than unrelated words. The influence of Chinese culture on Korea and Japane is extremely significant. However, the very different ethnic groups of Korean and Japan adapted what they borrowed to their own culture.

 

The Chinese, Korean, and Japanese civilizations are composed of ethnically very different people, with extremely different linguistic forms, and very different cultures. There has been a large amount of borrowing, mostly from China, and not by China, but this does not make them "similar" in any way as significant as you seem to be implying here.

[budullewraagh]

fine, i'm done here. the two of you have shown me that those who refuse to see will not. you can accept your opinions, devoid of fact and reason, and i will accept my fact-derived knowledge

[Cadmus]

fine, i'm done here. the two of you have shown me that those who refuse to see will not. you can accept your opinions, devoid of fact and reason, and i will accept my fact-derived knowledge

My. my, you do sound like you are pouting. I told you before that you have the right to your opinion, but that I disagree with it. You, however, prefer to pout. Your "fact-derived knowledge" versus our "opinions, devoid of fact and reason". What a joker you are. Ha, ha.

 

Good, let this thread finish. It is clear that you are in no mood to defend your opinion.

[Sayonara]

Gloating now you've got the playground to yourself just shows that he was right to walk away from this.