Spaghettifission

[questionposter]

This brings up a good point: If the forces in a black hole are as strong as we think they are, yet quarks cannot be broken down into any simpler particles (as far as evidence shows), what do they "break into" when the gravity becomes too much?

Edited March 20, 2012 by questionposter

[pantheory]

"Spaghettifission," that's one I haven't heard of before. There is spaghettification and spaghettiization, and a few other variations of the same word that I have forgotten now but spaghettifission seems descriptive enough for a slightly different process .

 

Depending on what hypothetical black-hole model you prefer, the sequence of events may go something like this: As matter accelerates to speeds maybe 10% the speed of light surrounding a black hole near the event horizon, the matter begins losing its electrons resulting in both ionization and molecular disassociation. What remains accordingly would be primarily just atomic nuclei. All of this material might be thought of as being drawn out in long strings of material by the super-gravity of the black-hole hence the idea of spaghettification. Following this, some hypothesis propose that the atomic nuclei themselves are split (fission) near or inside the event horizon. This process could be called spaghettifission. Most models further propose that the remaining atomic particles are themselves crushed out of existence, whether by a quark intermediate process of not. A few alternative models instead propose that the essence of the matter (a most fundamental particle of some kind) remains and forms a spherical agglomeration more dense than a neutron star, which would be an alternative black hole model.

Edited March 24, 2012 by pantheory

[imatfaal]

Pan - DrRocks mathematics above tends to throw doubt on the notion of incredible tidal forces that would rip atomic bonds

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/64981-spaghettifission/page__view__findpost__p__664524

[Spyman]

The point at which tidal forces destroy an object or kill a person depends on the black hole's size. For a supermassive black hole, such as those found at a galaxy's center, this point lies within the event horizon, so an astronaut may cross the event horizon without noticing any squashing and pulling, although it remains only a matter of time, as once inside an event horizon, falling towards the center is inevitable. For small black holes whose Schwarzschild radius is much closer to the singularity, the tidal forces would kill even before the astronaut reaches the event horizon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghettification

[questionposter]

The point at which tidal forces destroy an object or kill a person depends on the black hole's size. For a supermassive black hole, such as those found at a galaxy's center, this point lies within the event horizon, so an astronaut may cross the event horizon without noticing any squashing and pulling, although it remains only a matter of time, as once inside an event horizon, falling towards the center is inevitable. For small black holes whose Schwarzschild radius is much closer to the singularity, the tidal forces would kill even before the astronaut reaches the event horizon.

http://en.wikipedia....aghettification

 

The the black hole "everything" inside the event horizon? It's hard to imagine real distance works the same way with the warping of space beyond the point at which time can even flow.

[Spyman]

The the black hole "everything" inside the event horizon? It's hard to imagine real distance works the same way with the warping of space beyond the point at which time can even flow.

A Black Hole is from an outside view the volume enclosed by its Event Horizon, for a full understanding of distances and flow of time on the inside you need to learn General Relativity.

[questionposter]

A Black Hole is from an outside view the volume enclosed by its Event Horizon, for a full understanding of distances and flow of time on the inside you need to learn General Relativity.

 

Ok, so your saying time is simply warped at the event horizon so that time doesn't flow relative to an outside observer, yet the actual mass and event horizon of a black hole increases as soon as an object crosses the event horizon, not when it reaches the singularity, which makes it seem like the singularity occupies everything up to the event horizon.

Perhaps to an outside observer, something inside the black hole reaches the singularity instantaneously?

[Spyman]

Ok, so your saying time is simply warped at the event horizon so that time doesn't flow relative to an outside observer, yet the actual mass and event horizon of a black hole increases as soon as an object crosses the event horizon, not when it reaches the singularity, which makes it seem like the singularity occupies everything up to the event horizon.

Perhaps to an outside observer, something inside the black hole reaches the singularity instantaneously?

The center of mass of the Earth-Moon system contains both bodies mass and yet Earth doesn't occupy everything up to the Moon's backside.

 

The Singularity is a theoretical point in the center that is containing the Black Hole's mass, but this singularity also signals the break down of Relativity so there is likely something else at the center. So whatever hypothetical core the Black Hole has it doesn't need to reach all the way out the Event Horizon, it could very well and most likely does have a surface much much further down.

 

Once something pass the Event Horizon it is outside of our boundary in spacetime beyond which its events cannot affect us. I am not knowledged enough in Relativity to comment on how relative timekeeping proceeds from there, but as far as I understand it that something is *outside* of our rate of time.

 

Here is a good link for advanced readers: 7.3 Falling Into and Hovering Near A Black Hole