Tron

[36grit]

The first time I saw the movie "Tron" I though it was kinda lame. Then I saw it at the movies a while back and thought it was OK, I guess. But now I'm starting to wonder if we might soon make being's in cyberspace with consciesness and free will.

We'll be programming the "matrix" for strange beings and we already are.

Imagine the cyberverse that we've already created for them. They'd be able to quantum leap from a cartoon like farm to heavy artillary and not know the differece. They could also learn all about us by peeping at us through our phones and online information. Anybody else have thoughts about this?

[TransformerRobot]

It would be interesting for us to be able to create virtual reality beings with their own free will and sentience, but also quite dangerous.

 

Think about other fictional portrayals of such beings; in Capcom's Mega Man Battle Network series Net Navis are virtual beings that can think and feel for their own. Some are good, others are evil. Evil Net Navis often go so far as to manipulate innocent people into their cause. Capcom did the same portrayal of artificial sentient beings in Megaman X, but leading to a nightmarish 22nd century where a robot dictator wants to exterminate mankind so that Earth is a robot's paradise.

 

Tron's sequel, Tron: Legacy, gives use the same idea as Megaman with regards to what I just mentioned. If virtual beings with their own free will and consciousness are created, they will have the same problems as our own society (war, genocide, murder, etc.).

 

Alas, I'm not a computer programmer, nor have I heard of any attempts at making sentient computer programs, but I believe it would take a lot of hard work and financial coverage to create them.

[dimreepr]

It would be interesting for us to be able to create virtual reality beings with their own free will and sentience, but also quite dangerous.

 

Think about other fictional portrayals of such beings; in Capcom's Mega Man Battle Network series Net Navis are virtual beings that can think and feel for their own. Some are good, others are evil. Evil Net Navis often go so far as to manipulate innocent people into their cause. Capcom did the same portrayal of artificial sentient beings in Megaman X, but leading to a nightmarish 22nd century where a robot dictator wants to exterminate mankind so that Earth is a robot's paradise.

 

Tron's sequel, Tron: Legacy, gives use the same idea as Megaman with regards to what I just mentioned. If virtual beings with their own free will and consciousness are created, they will have the same problems as our own society (war, genocide, murder, etc.).

 

Alas, I'm not a computer programmer, nor have I heard of any attempts at making sentient computer programs, but I believe it would take a lot of hard work and financial coverage to create them.

 

descartes "I think therefore I am" comes into play here. If you design a system then freewill is automatically restricted and therefore is impossible.

[TransformerRobot]

descartes "I think therefore I am" comes into play here. If you design a system then freewill is automatically restricted and therefore is impossible.

 

Oh yes, sorry I didn't think about that at first. I may have been to hasty to use Tron and Megaman as examples of artificial being-induced disasters.

[36grit]

descartes "I think therefore I am" comes into play here. If you design a system then freewill is automatically restricted and therefore is impossible.

 

 

Our own freewill has restrictions as well. We all have a mouth to feed. Shelter and electricity is also very nice.

In a way we already have creatures lurking around in the cyberverse. There are viruses, trojans, and worms. Also webots that gather information and intelligence for their programmers. These things are absorbing energy and performing tasks but are they alive?

Think insects have free will? how about birds or racoons? Are they just divisions of dna molecules absorbing energy and running a survival program. Think you enjoy free will? Many of us go to work everyday to jobs that we hate, or home to wives that can't stand us. Think the pressures of the everyday can't be mathmatically calculated and formulated into functions and programs?

Isn't it possible that the day will come when we evolve a cyber entities into agents of free thought?

[TransformerRobot]

I'd much rather have free will and free thought.

 

Yes, tragically it seems most people hate their jobs, but if you hate your job so much you can always find new work. Going into business for yourself isn't easy, but if it's something you really enjoy it's worth a shot. If that fails, and you have to go back to working for somebody else, it's not so bad: Take it as a learning experience.

 

Anyway, with the idea of free will coming with responsibilities, yes, perhaps virtual beings like in the Tron films would be like that too.

[dimreepr]

Our own freewill has restrictions as well. We all have a mouth to feed. Shelter and electricity is also very nice.

In a way we already have creatures lurking around in the cyberverse. There are viruses, trojans, and worms. Also webots that gather information and intelligence for their programmers. These things are absorbing energy and performing tasks but are they alive?

Think insects have free will? how about birds or racoons? Are they just divisions of dna molecules absorbing energy and running a survival program. Think you enjoy free will? Many of us go to work everyday to jobs that we hate, or home to wives that can't stand us. Think the pressures of the everyday can't be mathmatically calculated and formulated into functions and programs?

Isn't it possible that the day will come when we evolve a cyber entities into agents of free thought?

 

 

It seems you have answered your own question, freewill doesn't exist. We are all restricted, primarily by culture, also family and friends.

Fear of showing yourself up, the need to feed and cloth yourself. Cyber agents would have its programming restricting it, plus any maintenance needed.

 

[merc187]

it is possible though not with todays technology but in the future right now we use energy and metal to store information but what about the future it is possible that eventually we could use something (and remember this is the distant future im talking about) like sub atomic particals to store information where it is possible it (the information) could take on a ife of its own. however it would more than likely not be like tron but something completely different.

[TransformerRobot]

It seems you have answered your own question, freewill doesn't exist. We are all restricted, primarily by culture, also family and friends.

Fear of showing yourself up, the need to feed and cloth yourself. Cyber agents would have its programming restricting it, plus any maintenance needed.

 

I guess you're right in that sense. However, doesn't it exist in the sense that we can think for ourselves to decide what's right and what's wrong?

[dimreepr]

I guess you're right in that sense. However, doesn't it exist in the sense that we can think for ourselves to decide what's right and what's wrong?

 

 

Yes offcorse we think for ourselves in the sense of do i reply to this post or not. I have choosen to respond. That choice however is bounded. The term free will really needs definition to establish what choices we really have.

[TransformerRobot]

I always thought "free" meant getting something without having to pay for it, or acting without consequences. Then there is that expression "Nothing is ever free.", which makes sense. Whoever came up with that expression by the way?

[36grit]

it is possible though not with todays technology but in the future right now we use energy and metal to store information but what about the future it is possible that eventually we could use something (and remember this is the distant future im talking about) like sub atomic particals to store information where it is possible it (the information) could take on a ife of its own. however it would more than likely not be like tron but something completely different.

 

 

I thought we were already printing information on photons. The big boys use this technowledgy for their high profile clientel. I'm pretty sure I read something to that affect somewhere. (Gotta love twitter).

In my visions of the future I see photon clouds quantum leaping information all over the place, litteraly, and very soon. We just need to study the particle fields as intently as we study the particles in them. I think the field defines the particle, in a round about kindof way. but that's a topic for speculations or somewhere else.

I read earlier today that astronomers are using a huge data bank to recreate the universe in great detail. So great a detail in fact that they are able to zoom in and watch super massive black holes form and grow very fast by inhailing vast amounts of cold gas. (Astronamy mag.) They are watching galaxies with planets form in greater detail than through a telescope. and it's forming in a "movie" like fasion complete with fast forward and reverse built right in. Think a man will spring right up out of the ground of some planet, right there in this colosal man made paradigm? Surely if not this version, a more complete version coming up soon. We could write ourselves an avatar and be time travelers, and healers, from their perspective. Walk on water and raise from the dead. We already raise from the dead, in most video games you get three lives.

I just hope we treat these cyberpeople better than we treat each other as a race. Hmm, need a cave man smiley to put here now or something. lol

[TransformerRobot]

If we don't start treating our fellow human beings better, if we ever have sentient virtual beings, then we'll need to make sure they don't take examples from us.

[merc187]

If we don't start treating our fellow human beings better, if we ever have sentient virtual beings, then we'll need to make sure they don't take examples from us.

 

 

oh man it would be terminator all over again with all of its paradoxs like sending your father from the future to meet your mother to create you which makes no sense since you wouldn't have been around in the future to send your father anyway. Although it is human nature for the most part to be greedy and to get any wanted item at any cost. I believe we would be better off without tron people if they were to learn from us because of this.