King, North TX Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 (edited) Over the years, I've been told a great many things. The first was that it was God and the angels bowling. I believed that until I asked my first science teacher, who told me that the lightening 'split' the air, and that thunder was the air 'clapping' back together. She demonstrated the effect by breaking a light bulb, for the "pop". Years later, I'm told that the lightening actually 'expands' the air rapidly, 'popping' it like a piece of popcorn, and that no split actually occurs. Last night a thunderstorm system passed several miles to the North. The system itself was brightly lit, but there were no 'flashes' of lightening making the light. The light was a steady glow. The lightening was in flashes, but the thunder was almost non-existent. Giant close looking flashes that usually yield big booms, rendered nothing. While distant flashes, would offer the occasional "crack" if that. So, how is the whole lightening and thunder thing supposed to work? Edited May 11, 2010 by King, North TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 well, you'll have noticed that lightning will flicker. so it super heats the air several times very very quickly. when the air is heated, it expands(you could take this as splitting i suppose), when it is cooling it contracts. this causes pressure waves in the air which your ears pick up as sound. because of the extremely quick nature of the event, the expansion is super sonic which causes shock waves. shockwaves get distorted as the travel which is why a close strike sounds sharp and a farther away strike produces more of a rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 well, you'll have noticed that lightning will flicker. so it super heats the air several times very very quickly. when the air is heated, it expands(you could take this as splitting i suppose), when it is cooling it contracts. this causes pressure waves in the air which your ears pick up as sound. because of the extremely quick nature of the event, the expansion is super sonic which causes shock waves. shockwaves get distorted as the travel which is why a close strike sounds sharp and a farther away strike produces more of a rumble. Does this also describe how "heat lightening" works? Should we hear a result of 'every' flash? What would cause a flash NOT to result in thunder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted May 11, 2010 Share Posted May 11, 2010 'heat lightning' is a bit of a misnomer. itsa perfectly normal thunderstorm and they do make noise. its just that the distance is so great that its out of ear shot. think of it like watching a fireworks display from 10 miles away, you'll be able to see it but the sound will not reach you. its also possible for the sounds of closer strikes(a couple of miles away though) to be muffled by heavy snow or a dust/sand storm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 11, 2010 Author Share Posted May 11, 2010 'heat lightning' is a bit of a misnomer. itsa perfectly normal thunderstorm and they do make noise. its just that the distance is so great that its out of ear shot. think of it like watching a fireworks display from 10 miles away, you'll be able to see it but the sound will not reach you. its also possible for the sounds of closer strikes(a couple of miles away though) to be muffled by heavy snow or a dust/sand storm. So, if I have a sensitive microphone, and there's no snow or sand to impede the sound, theoretically I 'should' hear every lightening flash? How much would rain dampen sound waves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 The continuous glow you describe is probably the result of continuous lightening. Many times, if you are far away the lightning is so continuous and thunder so low pitched at a great distance you might not notice it as the individual thunder claps you are used to, also at a great distance the individual thunder claps would be hard to associate with each lightning strike due to light being so fast and sound being so slow in comparison but i would expect a sensitive microphone to pic up what the ear cannot hear. It is quite possible you witnessed a tornado from a distance, tornadoes often have continuous lightning and they used to say you could pic them up on a UHF TV channel, I'm not sure if that is really true. I had a dog that was terrified of thunder and would do her best to hide from the sound way before any sign of a storm appeared to us. She would start acting crazy before the storm even appeared on local radar. Hurricanes were an ordeal for her that lasted a couple days at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 The continuous glow you describe is probably the result of continuous lightening. Many times, if you are far away the lightning is so continuous and thunder so low pitched at a great distance you might not notice it as the individual thunder claps you are used to, also at a great distance the individual thunder claps would be hard to associate with each lightning strike due to light being so fast and sound being so slow in comparison but i would expect a sensitive microphone to pic up what the ear cannot hear. It is quite possible you witnessed a tornado from a distance, tornadoes often have continuous lightning and they used to say you could pic them up on a UHF TV channel, I'm not sure if that is really true. I had a dog that was terrified of thunder and would do her best to hide from the sound way before any sign of a storm appeared to us. She would start acting crazy before the storm even appeared on local radar. Hurricanes were an ordeal for her that lasted a couple days at least. Why is lightening different colors? In this storm, I saw almost no 'white' or light blue lightening. Almost all of it was purple, not just the background cloud hidden flashes, but the outer bolts also. And the bolts were all very short. I saw no 'streak lightening', that's almost always long and white. I HAVE heard lightening disruption on a tiny B&W TV I had in my youth... As a spinal cord injury patient, my body has become somewhat of a human barometer. My legs will always indicate an approaching low pressure system by flailing about in uncontrolled spasms. I am better at predicting rain than my local weather guy. You should consider loaning your pouch out to your local weather guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well maybe if you saw blue lightning from far away or through a dusty atmosphere, it would have looked redder for the same reason that sunrises/sets look reddish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 12, 2010 Author Share Posted May 12, 2010 Well maybe if you saw blue lightning from far away or through a dusty atmosphere, it would have looked redder for the same reason that sunrises/sets look reddish. This was well after sunset, the thunderstorm 'glowed' with a dim light from the center, and gave of purple lightening bolts that made no thunder... The only thunder was the occasional crack that didn't any match lightening. That said, I've seen LOTS of lightening that didn't have what I thought should be corresponding thunder. I'm not at all convinced that all lightening produces thunder. What is ball lightening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted May 12, 2010 Share Posted May 12, 2010 It doesn't matter what time of day it is, the particles are still there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 This was well after sunset, the thunderstorm 'glowed' with a dim light from the center, and gave of purple lightening bolts that made no thunder... The only thunder was the occasional crack that didn't any match lightening. That said, I've seen LOTS of lightening that didn't have what I thought should be corresponding thunder. I'm not at all convinced that all lightening produces thunder. What is ball lightening? Big question, many ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_lightning I've seen ball lightning, once, i was riding my dirt bike home late one night and on a long path through the woods along a mountain ridge a pale ball of light about as big as a basketball rose out of the ground about 30 feet ahead of me directly in my path. it rose fast enough that I went under it and when i stopped and looked back it was gone. No noticeable effects to my motorcycle but it is interesting i was rushing home to avoid an approaching thunderstorm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 i read an article yesterday that said they'd figured out how ball lightning occured. its trans cranial magnetic stimulation of the brain from the magnetic fields produced by a lightning strike. basically a hallucination of a disc of light caused by external conditions. ah here we go http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25166/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 13, 2010 Author Share Posted May 13, 2010 i read an article yesterday that said they'd figured out how ball lightning occured. its trans cranial magnetic stimulation of the brain from the magnetic fields produced by a lightning strike. basically a hallucination of a disc of light caused by external conditions. ah here we go http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/arxiv/25166/ Are video cameras subject to this same hallucination effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
insane_alien Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 no, but there are many many fakes out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 Clearly, ball lightning is simply how we see alien beings made of pure energy Ignore me, I make bad jokes based on the UFO thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted May 13, 2010 Share Posted May 13, 2010 I wonder if several people at the same time would be affected the same way and see the same thing as ball lightning? Then there are the people who have been killed by ball lightning in front of wittinesses. The study in the link provided is nothing but conjecture, no out of the lab effects have been seen nor have the hallucinations seen inside the lab been definitely equated with ball lightning in any way except it might be similar. Even the existence of ball lightning is nothing but eye witness testimony and therefore useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King, North TX Posted May 14, 2010 Author Share Posted May 14, 2010 (edited) no, but there are many many fakes out there. Do you have evidence that THIS video has been altered, or is that just how you respond to all video submissions? Edited May 14, 2010 by King, North TX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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