5605 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 how close are people to making human clones? has it been done? does anyone agree it is completly unethical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 cloning embroys has just been done in ireland. The maths would make it seem ethical, a life for a life, but i think it is best to stay away from it if we arnt sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Do you think it's unethical? I think it's unethical to thinks its unethical. That is if you believe in ethics. That life has its own identity just like any other child. Surely the government will give it rights just like everyone else. This child deserves then to be loved and raised as any other child. Clones happen naturally anyway, it's called twins. So if you think its unethical, what are you going to do when it happens? Realize it's a human life, you might get weird things like a woman giving birth to her own clone, weird, but once it happens you'll deal with it and it will be ok. Is there any other option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 i didnt mean to insuate that cloning is wrong, rather what you do with the clone, if you kill it for research or as i pointed out to help another life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 Do you think it's unethical? I think it's unethical to thinks its unethical. That is if you believe in ethics. That life has its own identity just like any other child. Surely the government will give it rights just like everyone else. This child deserves then to be loved and raised as any other child. Clones happen naturally anyway' date=' it's called twins.So if you think its unethical, what are you going to do when it happens? Realize it's a human life, you might get weird things like a woman giving birth to her own clone, weird, but once it happens you'll deal with it and it will be ok. Is there any other option?[/quote'] I'm pretty sure that rape is unethical to most people, but usually a child born from a rape is given the same rights as everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 i didnt mean to insuate that cloning is wrong, rather what you do with the clone, if you kill it for research or as i pointed out to help another life. If you clone a human being(and assuming that we have the technology to create these clone with no problems to their physiological or psychological state), then treat him/her the same way as you would treat yourself - meaning to kill the clone would be unethical. However if you create a clone but it dies due to the process or for some other odd reason, then an autopsy to determine what happened, would and should be quite alright. However if you can specifically grow organs and other kinds of tissue, that you can use for transplants, then that's a whole other story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 actually my reply was to 5605, he asked if anyone agreed with it being unethical, which probably means he thinks it is. I do agree with you though sayin if we aren't sure, no reason to screw up someones life (the clone) if it messes up. Just sayin if the risk by is taken and it works then we must accept it---- which nobody was arguing actually at it so my post is kinda obsolete in purpose. apologies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 without going into too much detail how can it be wrong to clone? so what if there will be two similar ppl, maybe they would have been cloned for a good reason, i cant see nothing wrong with it! [so probably now there will be a debate between me and everyone else!!!] (i dont mind) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 by 'killing' a clone we are talking about removing the chance of conciesness, and therefore growing organs should be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 so what if someone dies, so what if a few people die before we get it right, the thing is that, one day, we might need or have to be able to clone people imagine there is a world wide viral outbreak, and only a few people have the right gene/anti-bodies to stop the virus, we have to be able clone those ppl, otherwise we all die! or if theres a war, and survival of the fitest, we might have to clone the fitest! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 i see no problem with cloning itself (see earlier post) but cloning purley to kill an embryo to extract stem cells for research or to be grown into body parts, allthough the maths is ethical (1 life for 1 or more lives) i believe we should stay away from as we just dont know whether or not its ethical, we are not that intelliegent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 i cant see nothing[/b'] wrong with it! Uhm, so does this mean that you DO see something wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 you dont have to kill someone, just to get some cells to clone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 most cloning nowerdays is the cloning of embryos which are then killed and stemcells collected. I see a problem there. Especially when stem cells can be collected from bone marrow. I think most of the controversy arises from what you do with the clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 yeah, so stem cells can be collected through bone marrow, thats what i thought, so theres no prob with killing embryos, u dont have to.... but what can you do with a clone which is soooo wrong? [im for cloning] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 nothing apart from kill it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 yeah' date=' so stem cells can be collected through bone marrow, thats what i thought, so theres no prob with killing embryos, u dont have to.... [im for cloning'] You dont Have to but in reality people choose cloning embryos and getting stem cells from there, and killing the cloned embryo in the process, rather than bone marrow, because its cheaper. Thats what i have a problem with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 ye, i kinda agree with ed84c, its wrong to kill an embryo when u can use bone marrow, just coz its cheaper but at the same time, the embryo prob cant feel its dying or nothing, it prob can feel at all, it wont know its about to die, and the mother, will presumably have no problem with it either, so its not all so bad is it? its not the like the embryo is a living feeling person who can talk, it wont know whats going on, its just one sec it will b alive, then next sec it will b dead, it wont know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 Especially when stem cells can be collected from bone marrow. Embryos and Bone marrow are NOT the only places that produce stem cells. However' date=' it is thought that the stem cells derived from an embryo are the Mac Daddies of stem cells, because they have the Potential to turn into any kind of tissue or organ, etc. That's why more people are interested in Embryonic stem cell/research as opposed to Adult stem cell research. its not the like the embryo is a living feeling person who can talk, it wont know whats going on, its just one sec it will b alive, then next sec it will b dead, it wont know the difference. Tell that to those Anti-Abortionists and other Human rights groups. Surely if they could have things their way, they could probably say that to waste sperm cells(you're a guy, so use your imagination here ) is a crime against humanity or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavajoEverclear Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 You dont Have to [/i'] but in reality people choose cloning embryos and getting stem cells from there, and killing the cloned embryo in the process, rather than bone marrow, because its cheaper. Thats what i have a problem with. thats where the controversy is. As far as cloning an entire human, our own laws (tho very imperfect, they do provide basic protection) wont ALLOW it to be abused, so the technicality of where the DNA came from doesn't really matter. But stem cell is where killing IS allowed. Especially if they do it just for it being cheaper that is disgusting and should be made illegal---- actually i thought it had been made illegal, i know Bush wanted it to be (Bush isn't ALL bad). There must be some newspaper headline i missed or forgot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 ---- actually i thought it had been made illegal, i know Bush wanted it to be (Bush isn't ALL bad). There must be some newspaper headline i missed or forgot. In ireland its not illegal and i think frozen embryos no longer needed are legal in this country. I guenuinley dont know whether its officially illegal in this country, either way im sure it still goes on behind closed doors............ There was a man who claimed to have cloned a human and grown it to a normal person.....He was later exiled from italy for this and claiming he was from mars........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 ---- actually i thought it had been made illegal' date=' i know Bush wanted it to be (Bush isn't ALL bad). There must be some newspaper headline i missed or forgot.[/quote'] In US, he hasn't made it Illegal (I bet you though that he probably wants to), but he did made the requirements for doing so very very strict and harsh. So, unless you know of a millionaire or a few who'll be willing to cover your financial needs fully(you will still be Limited by what you can do), chances are 99.9999% to .00001% that you will NOT be doing any Embryonic stem cell research. I believe that(don't quote me on the numbers), that out of all stem cell researchers in the USA, only 15 or 16 people are doing Embryonic stem cell research. The other option, move yourself and your lab to oh say Europe, or Latin America or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 *official embryonic research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 *official embryonic research ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed84c Posted July 25, 2004 Share Posted July 25, 2004 you say there is 0.00001% chance they are doing reasearch? Thats official research. Unofficial, stuff the government doesnt want you to know about..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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