secretsmile Posted July 9, 2004 Share Posted July 9, 2004 I read somewhere once that our thoughts create chemical reactions inthe brain which are 'emotions,' and I was wondering if this had been scientifically proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Chemical reactions occur conjuctly with thoughts. I think the reactions lead to the thoughts though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senexa Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 The answer to your question is "Of course." I would recommend the following article as a starting point as Fellous has done some remarkable research in that area: The Neuromodulatory Basis of Emotion http://www.cnl.salk.edu/~fellous/pubs/emo.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secretsmile Posted July 10, 2004 Author Share Posted July 10, 2004 Skye - you are saying that chemical reactions result in thoughts? I don't understand how that can be when thoughts are so random and complex? Don't you mean emotions? Do chemical reactions result in emotions? If so, do you think it also works the other way around and thoughts create chemical reactions? Sorry if I am not making a whole lot of sense, this is all very confusing for me. Someone said that emotions are largely subconcious so we cannot control them, but like Senexa said, if thoughts create chemical reactions - then we can choose how we feel. Right? Senexa, thank you for the article. =) I have one question though from what I have read: "The first results involving the hypothalamus in emotion were obtained by selective stimulation of various nuclei of this structure in awake and behaving animals. For example, stimulation of the lateral hypothalamus produces typical and integrated motor responses characteristic of 'anger.' (higher blood pressure, raising of hair, arching of the back...) This resulting behavior was termed 'sham rage' because of it's assumed lack of concious experience." Dosen't this actually contradict that thoughts (concious awareness of our thoughts) creates chemical reactions? Dosen't this prove the direct opposite? I'll continue reading. =) Take care, secretsmile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted July 10, 2004 Share Posted July 10, 2004 Skye - you are saying that chemical reactions result in thoughts? Yes, but indirectly. I don't understand how that can be when thoughts are so random and complex? The chemical reactions within the brain are complex too, and very numerous. They also act within a complex and organised structure. Don't you mean emotions? Do chemical reactions result in emotions? I'm including emotions with thoughts here. If so, do you think it also works the other way around and thoughts create chemical reactions? I can't see how. Where would the energy come from to start the thoughts, that then lead to chemical reactions? Sorry if I am not making a whole lot of sense, this is all very confusing for me. Someone said that emotions are largely subconcious so we cannot control them, but like Senexa said, if thoughts create chemical reactions - then we can choose how we feel. Right? I'm not saying I actually have the definitive answer, I don't think anyone does. This is a hard subject because many of the ideas that people hold close to them, like free will and spirituality, get trampled on. I'm only drawing logical conclusions based on what I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senexa Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 The chemicals serving as neurotransmitters are predominently nonessential amino acids produced within the brain itself, and these can be affected by nutrition, evironmental and emotional influences. You can artificially reproduce the natural responses by stimulating various synapses electrically to attain specific results, but you can also measure the naturally occurring spikes in neurotransmission (with the concommitant spike in the amino acid concentration) by conducting psychological experiments, and these experiments have included everything from shrill klaxon horns to pictures of babies. There are a number of really fascinating studies out there on this but for a grounding in the interactions of the chemistry of the brain, this was the most helpful to me. http://www.benbest.com/science/anatmind/anatmd10.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auburngirl05 Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 This is a slightly related question that I've wondered about for a long time: do thoughts burn calories? For example, will you burn more calories sitting still working math problems for an hour than you would if you sat still twiddling your thumbs and staring into space for an hour? I wasn't sure if ATP were consumed in thought processes or not, I always assumed any body functions required energy, but wasn't sure how that calculated into calories when it came to brain function. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 The chemical reactions are thoughts/feelings. Thoughts and feeling originate in the brain, and to say that they create chemical activity in the brain implies a kind of mind/brain duality. Skye is right, chemical activity leads to thoughts. Although they are the same thing in essence, the chemical activity is very basic and thoughts and emotions are more a function of neural circuitry than activity in any paricular areas. It takes time for the activity in different areas of the brain to be brought together in association and to register as conscious and volitional thought. Therefore, chemical activity precedes conscious thoughts. There is a lot of evidence to show that emotion precedes cognition too, but emotions occur in response to stimuli. So it is exposure to emotionally valenced stimuli that causes chemical reactions, from the most basic; activity in the reticular activating system, to higher limbic areas e.g. the left amygdala, the medial thalamus the anterior cingulate gyrus and so-on and activity in these areas results in emotion, which in turn influences higher, more volitional cognitive processes. All this happens very quickly. Exposure to emotionally valenced information has been shown to alter people's emotional-motivational state within 250 milliseconds. It has also been shown to happen outside people's conscious awareness as the response occurs even though the stimulus exposure time (40 milliseconds) is less than a person can consciously register (see for example Chen, M., & Bargh, J. A. (1999). Consequences of automatic evaluation: Immediate behavioral predispositions to approach or avoid the stimulus. Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 25 (2), 215-224.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 This is a slightly related question that I've wondered about for a long time: do thoughts burn calories? For example, will you burn more calories sitting still working math problems for an hour than you would if you sat still twiddling your thumbs and staring into space for an hour? Yes. The brain is a very greedy organ to begin with, using about 25% of our total oxygen intake, but if you look at PET scans of neural activity 'at rest' and during a challanging task, you'll see that the latter shows the brain lit up like a Christmas tree (task specific areas anyway). PET uses radio labelled glucose which concentrates at areas of high activity (metabolism). Areas of high metabolism light up in PET. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skye Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Glider, do you have any idea if there's much of proportional increase in oxygen intake during mental tasks? I've read that it tends to stay pretty much the same. This makes sense as I've never gotten short of breath from studying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 Lol, no, neither have I (except for that one time pre-exam with the chest pains and dizzyness ) There is an increase in oxygen demand during metal tasks (concommitant with the increase in metabolism of glucose), but it is not large. Overall neurological activity in the brain is fairly constant throughout the day, as is the overall demand for oxygen(~25%). The demand for oxygen increases only slightly during focussed cognitive tasks as more general, non-related brain activity is suppressed. A resting PET scan shows general activity across the cortex, but a PET scan during a task shows high levels of activity in areas associated with the particular task, but lower levels of activity in non related areas, so the net demand remains more or less stable (it does increase under stressful tasks, but not hugely). You can see examples of this in real life when doing more than one thing at once. For example, if you're listening to music whilst reading and the music suddenly grabs your attention (e.g. a bit you really like), you stop registering what's on the page. Conversely, if a section you are reading grabs your interest and absorbs your attention, you will stop hearing the music. Same thing if you're talking on the phone whilst watching TV, you can focus on one or the other. Not both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 11, 2004 Share Posted July 11, 2004 While were on the same or similar topic here, Glider, do the free radicals have the same effect on the neurons(or even the brain in general) as they do on other cells? I'm pretty sure that the answer is yes, but not 100% sure. If so, have there been any cognitive deficits directly linked to them? Any links or journal sources would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 As far as I know, free radicals do what they do to whatever cells are exposed to them. I haven't seen any literature on free radicals, so I can;t say for certain, nor can I post any links. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
senexa Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Well, here's a good paper on Alzheimer's disease and free radicals. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/71/2/621s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admiral_ju00 Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I'll take whatever you can give me . Thank you Glider and Senexa for the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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