No reality only perception(Think!!!)

[x__heavenly__x]

There is no reality, only perception. Perception is your world. What is it you may ask? It’s the way you see the world. The way you live in it and make your decisions in it. Every different individual has her/his own perception and hence her/his reality. This is what creates an individual. Now perception comes from experience and learning. It’s a chain meaning that what you learn will weave your imagination and experience. This experience will force you to make decisions on what you like to learn, which makes all these spontaneous. This dynamist - within and without – makes your perception variable/dependent on your experience and learning and that’s reality, which turn out to be your way of living. This confusing and inevitable cycle – lets call it the reality cluster - starts from the time of your birth.

 

One must pause here and take a look at the bigger picture. Every other person’s perception – in whose presence you have been – has an effect on your reality cluster not limited to Parents, Peers, Media and Relationships. It is like two processors, one yours and the other his/her/it’s. Their action is through their perception of the world or the reality and their action will have an effect on your reality cluster. It’s all spontaneous, continuous and infinite. This goes on further deep and is much more messier, so I will stop here.

 

Now lets take an example of two women. One bought up in a cold bloodied, pecimistic and rich family/society will look at today’s world as a dump for low grade, psycho pomp, and down-the-drain losers. She will curse and finger at every other person with a turban or a beard. However one who has been raised in a well-to-do family, a responsible household will perceive the world as a place where there is still a place for people with good heart and trusty friends.

 

Ultimately it boils down to the fact that the way you are raised, the society you are brought up in and the friends you have determines your reality cluster – which you share with others too. ~tired~

[Skye]

What are you perceiving though?

[Sayonara]

The very existence of perception requires a reality by definition, and the fact that perception differs between individuals doesn't mean that reality is changing.

[YT2095]

Reality in the "Subjective" frame may indeed be alterable by state of mind or body chemistry (use of psychotropic drugs/medicines).

there is however A realitity that doesn`t care what you think, it will be that way regardless

THAT reality is what Science endevours to examine and quantify

[Sayonara]

Reality in the "Subjective" frame may indeed be alterable by state of mind or body chemistry (use of psychotropic drugs/medicines).

No, that's perception changing.

[YT2095]

that`s why I said in the "Subjective" frame

[Sayonara]

You're still just substituting the term 'reality' for the term 'perception of reality'.

 

If you're drunk, the room isn't actually spinning. Doesn't matter who's there to witness it.

[YT2095]

if I`m color blind, in MY reality there maybe no such color as red or green or whatever (subjective reality).

 

but in THE reality of course there are such colors, perception is part of reality and a valid one at that

 

I thought post #4 explained that reasonably well?

[Sayonara]

You're still substituting the words "my reality" for "my perception of reality", which doesn't magically make the two things the same.

[YT2095]

"No reality only perseption(Think!!!) " from the Original poster.

 

my contention is that the statement is only true in ONE aspect and that there is an imutable Realiity that doesn`t care what your perceptions are.

[Sayonara]

That's what I'm saying too. But I think calling perception of reality "a" reality is inviting unnecessary confusion

 

That's what I mean.

[YT2095]

it is A reality, but not THE reality

[x__heavenly__x]

Reality in the "Subjective" frame may indeed be alterable by state of mind or body chemistry (use of psychotropic drugs/medicines).

there is however A realitity that doesn`t care what you think' date=' it will be that way regardless

THAT reality is what Science endevours to examine and quantify [/quote']

 

 

All thoughts r rite in thir own meaning but wat my writing suggested was wat we react towards a thing existing in reality...and yes "the dont care reality " is actualy god or nature(samething)...which goes on forever and also effects our perception of objects/people etc

[YT2095]

I`m not 100% I understand your last post?

 

but from what I think I understood, I would say Yes certainly the REAL Reality can effect us regardless of our perceptions, one only need look at the idiots that died after taking LSD and jumped of tall buildings thinking they were Super Man, only to find out that the penaly to for trying to violate the laws of gravity are imediate!

[x__heavenly__x]

I`m not 100% I understand your last post?

 

...and jumped of tall buildings thinking they were Super Man' date=' only to find out that the penaly to for trying to violate the laws of gravity are imediate! [/quote']

 

I will explain by saing that u used the word "thinking" they were superman...now do all ppl do that?...why only two kids? That was because the way they were raised/friends etc, the reality cluster for them is different!

Those dumbos thought they cud fly!!!Well if u say some reality cannot be changed then it is NATURE...like death or weather or solar storms etc(coincedently all unpredictable).

[x__heavenly__x]

And yes I even deny the fact for genetic enheritence of " personality"...the genes, I think , are just like do-it-your-self blocks which in the end make up wat ever the reality cluster wants to!!They r like a platform.

 

And the reality i think ur tring to tell abt is the "things which exist".

 

And I agree with sayonara3 for some points...he is rite in "You're still substituting the words "my reality" for "my perception of reality", which doesn't magically make the two things the same"

[YT2095]

I`m having difficulty understanding some of your posts, It`s probably my fault, so bear with me

 

Nature (we`ll ignore the "God" concept for now as that`s a different issue) is indeed a constant. although we may lack 100% understanding of it in it`s entirity, the bits we DO KNOW are as fact and will remain so.

these KNOWN facts can appear warped to some people with sensory problems (color blindness etc...) or those taking mind altering drugs. to those people, what THEY experience is just as "real" as what you are I experience with all systems "normal".

a man pulls a rabbit out of a hat at a magik show, you saw that with your own eyes! it was Subjectively REAL, but in actuality, the hat may have had a hole in the top and the table had a draw hiden by mirrors

[Sayonara]

it is A reality, but not THE reality

No, it isn't. You don't make something into something else just by claiming that subjectivity makes its definition mutable.

 

Just because we use words in ways like "it was real to Lucy", doesn't mean that the thing Lucy is perceiving has a basis in any reality. 'It' exists only as a representation of something she is perceiving.

[Kevin Conti]

Perception is certainly subjective and subject to interpretation. In fact, the empiricism vs. rationalism debate was central to european philosophical thought over the last few centuries. In terms of what you said i am sure it has some meaning to you but has no psychological research foundation in it so i will not comment kid.

 

later

[Glider]

No' date=' it isn't. You don't make something into something else just by claiming that subjectivity makes its definition mutable.

 

Just because we use words in ways like "it was real to Lucy", doesn't mean that the thing Lucy is perceiving has a basis in [u']any[/u] reality. 'It' exists only as a representation of something she is perceiving.

 

This is true. The terms 'Reality' and 'Perception' are not interchangable, they refer to different things. One exists and doesn't require our understanding (or even our existence) to do so. The other is an interpretive representation that needs to have undergone transduction and cognitive reconstruction in order to exist. They are completely different things.

[Sayonara]

Perception is certainly subjective and subject to interpretation.

I don't recall saying it wasn't. Don't call me 'kid'.

[YT2095]

actualy I was only trying to draw a distinction between the 2, perceived reality and Ultimate reality that as Glider said "One exists and doesn't require our understanding (or even our existence) to do so." and is also the reality that Science endevours to learn more of.

 

perhaps perception would have been a better word than "Subjective reality" on my part?

[x__heavenly__x]

Actualy my heading was wrong...No reality only perception....I ment :

 

Indivisualism is not genetic or "determined"....it is built!..And the reality YT2095 is talking about is something different( that reality is there and it dosnt care wat we think)

But I am onto only this world, the way different ppl percieve it, thats all.

 

For example the color black, someone may like it someone may not depending on what they have been programmed to think by their parents!!..

 

And by the way if the reality which "dosnt care" is not perceved by us or not understod by us then we cannot make any calculations on it(they will be wrong or may be diff for different scientists)

 

In short how do we know an apple is an apple, not a table?...Its because we were educated that way!!We eat apples and tables for things. Our(humans) perception about apple is that it is edible!!..

I wish I cud be more clear!

[YT2095]

that`s why Science is a discipline and has certain methods and rigors of scrutiny, to elliminate any subjectivity, hence all things must be repeatable in any lab and independantly. then it can be said to be a truth X + Y = Z, and can also be cosidered part of the Ultimate Reality

anything else is looked upon as outside this, until it passes proper scrutiny

 

[edit] and apple is an apple only because it posses certain virtures only characteristics of an apple that are testable. and so we will know it is not a table as a table posses certain virtues that only a table might and an apple will not

[x__heavenly__x]

True very true...I think i am getting it now. Thanks.