bombus Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 (edited) Huh? How is this the fault of the United States? What are you talking about? Are you serious? Have you no idea what's going on? Maybe you should read this - written by one your countrymen. Actually this website is based in the USA - and is one of the best things on the web. REAL NEWS for a change! http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20717.htm I seriously think we're heading into Cold War II with Russia if we're not careful. My friend, that's their plan! The companies that rule the USA are chomping at the bit for a new cold war - as it's sooo profitable. Why do you think the USA MUST always be at war with someone? Edited September 10, 2008 by Pangloss fixed quote tag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Are you serious? Have you no idea what's going on? Maybe you should read this - written by one your countrymen. Actually this website is based in the USA - and is one of the best things on the web. REAL NEWS for a change! http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article20717.htm Oh, I get what you're doing now. Well, Bombus, tell us how every country except the US is not a de facto oligarchy. Using the same standards and metrics you place on the US, tell us how the rest of the world escapes the clutches of the rich elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted September 9, 2008 Share Posted September 9, 2008 Well, that certainly explains a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 It does, doesn't it? (Oh, I fixed the quote tags in a couple posts above.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Oh, I get what you're doing now. Well, Bombus, tell us how every country except the US is not a de facto oligarchy. Using the same standards and metrics you place on the US, tell us how the rest of the world escapes the clutches of the rich elite. Well, you see, all those Russian billionaires like to stay out of politics, and would never use their influence inappropriately. And their foreign policy is totally fair and reasonable, which is why Russia is so popular right now, just like America would be if we were nicer. And they don't actually censor liberal voices, they just have nothing to say. And they're not drumming up jingoism in their youth, it's just civic pride. So you see, clearly the United States is the only evil country, and is responsible for all problems everywhere. It wouldn't be on the internet if it wasn't true. Read some history, my friend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Oh, I get what you're doing now. Well, Bombus, tell us how every country except the US is not a de facto oligarchy. Using the same standards and metrics you place on the US, tell us how the rest of the world escapes the clutches of the rich elite. Nope. The rest of the so-called free world are in pretty much the same place - but it's far more advanced in the USA, simply because of the size of the US economy and the influence it has throughout the world. The EU is going exactly the same way - just you watch. China isn't in the clutches of the oligarchs, but has a pretty oppresive totalitarian government that is fairly corrupt and pretends to be communist, and Russia of course doesn't let oligarchs get away with it any more. But yeah, the rest of us are in the same boat, or at least caught in the wake. Well, you see, all those Russian billionaires like to stay out of politics, and would never use their influence inappropriately. And their foreign policy is totally fair and reasonable, which is why Russia is so popular right now, just like America would be if we were nicer. And they don't actually censor liberal voices, they just have nothing to say. And they're not drumming up jingoism in their youth, it's just civic pride. So you see, clearly the United States is the only evil country, and is responsible for all problems everywhere. It wouldn't be on the internet if it wasn't true. Read some history, my friend! the USA is not inherently evil, neither are its people. But the companies that dicatate your future, and coordinate the media to bamboozle you all with bullshit are. They really don't mean to be of course, they simply want to make as much profit as possible, but when it's on such a huge scale (and remember most of the companies are transnationals) and they are competing with each other they end up putting profit before people, and so ultimately everyone (including most of the US population) are treated as fodder for the rich - obviously to varying degrees in different countries to avoid a revolution! Well, that certainly explains a lot. I hope you joking... really, don't you get it yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParanoiA Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Nope. The rest of the so-called free world are in pretty much the same place - but it's far more advanced in the USA, simply because of the size of the US economy and the influence it has throughout the world. The EU is going exactly the same way - just you watch. China isn't in the clutches of the oligarchs, but has a pretty oppresive totalitarian government that is fairly corrupt and pretends to be communist, and Russia of course doesn't let oligarchs get away with it any more. But yeah, the rest of us are in the same boat, or at least caught in the wake. So it's nature you're against. I can understand that, but you have to ask yourself why. If it's so natural for groups to allow the elite to run them, as it appears since all the groups are doing it, then who really is out of line with their thinking? I've often wondered how people can look at mankind, the animal kingdom, earth, all of this and somehow get the notion that violence is not necessary, or act surprised that we invest so much into it. There is nothing we can observe that would suggest anything different. Same with the natural plutocracy that seems to erupt in every government, no matter how it's designed. It seems reasonable that humans need this, they want it - that's why they allow it. I think it's unreasonable to indict and blacklist the planet of governments because of a natural urge to allow the elite to run us. Blame humans, not their constructs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 (edited) So it's nature you're against. I can understand that, but you have to ask yourself why. If it's so natural for groups to allow the elite to run them, as it appears since all the groups are doing it, then who really is out of line with their thinking? I've often wondered how people can look at mankind, the animal kingdom, earth, all of this and somehow get the notion that violence is not necessary, or act surprised that we invest so much into it. There is nothing we can observe that would suggest anything different. Same with the natural plutocracy that seems to erupt in every government, no matter how it's designed. It seems reasonable that humans need this, they want it - that's why they allow it. I think it's unreasonable to indict and blacklist the planet of governments because of a natural urge to allow the elite to run us. Blame humans, not their constructs. That's the purpose of good government though - To remain vigilant and ensure that society does not become corrupt. But you seem to just deny everything I say, and then end up saying 'that's just (human) nature'. You can fight back you know. You are NOT powerless. And the first step is to stop beleiving the bullshit you are fed. You guys are not stupid, on the contrary, you are very clever, so why do you defend these bastards who certainly don't care about you! Try watching this - please do. http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13062.htm 14:50mins is a good bit - but then it all is. Really please watch it! Edited September 10, 2008 by bombus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 If your head were any more full of conspiracy theories, it would explode! Corporations are powerful, yes, but not particularly more so than would be expected from the amount of money (aka resources) that they have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 (edited) If your head were any more full of conspiracy theories, it would explode! Corporations are powerful, yes, but not particularly more so than would be expected from the amount of money (aka resources) that they have. And how powerful is that? About as powerful as they need to be to do what they are doing methinks... I'm no conspiracy theorist pal - I tell you. The fact that you think this a conspiracy theory is scary. Man, there is proof of all this stuff. Solid hard proof. Maybe you're just scared to believe anything that rocks your cosy boat? They know that so get away with what they want. You are treated as fodder and will argue with me to say you are not. It's incredible, you defend those who rip you off! I am trying to help you, but as ever, there are none so blind as those that will not see. Watch that video and tell me it's a conspiracy theory. Edited September 11, 2008 by bombus multiple post merged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Bombus: yeah, you really gotta hate those giant multinational corporations. I mean just look at some of the horrific things that come out of them: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Bombus: yeah, you really gotta hate those giant multinational corporations. I mean just look at some of the horrific things that come out of them: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm Clearly an attempt to understate the issue! That's just one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Bombus: yeah, you really gotta hate those giant multinational corporations. I mean just look at some of the horrific things that come out of them: http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm Don't be so niaive! This is going back to old Victorian ideas of Philanthropy. Yes it's great when billionaires do good things with their money, but the problem is that we shouldn't have a system where such huge inequalities are allowed to exist in the first place. For every billionaire or billionaire company there's twenty more that don't undertake such charitable activities. Believe me -I have a job where I try to get money out of them and most will spend more on corporate lunches for their Directors than they will on helping disabled kids. Do you understand why the 3rd world is poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Don't be so niaive! This is going back to old Victorian ideas of Philanthropy. Yes it's great when billionaires do good things with their money, but the problem is that we shouldn't have a system where such huge inequalities are allowed to exist in the first place. I have an idea. We could take a portion of the money from those who are more dedicated and/or talented, and give it to less talented or less dedicated, so that everyone gets just as much money. Not sure what we could call such a system though... For every billionaire or billionaire company there's twenty more that don't undertake such charitable activities. No one said they have to. Believe me -I have a job where I try to get money out of them and most will spend more on corporate lunches for their Directors than they will on helping disabled kids. Um, maybe you should get a different job. Or a different attitude. Who pays for such dismal service anyhow? Do you understand why the 3rd world is poor? I have a pretty good idea why, historically and currently. Do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 I have an idea. We could take a portion of the money from those who are more dedicated and/or talented, and give it to less talented or less dedicated, so that everyone gets just as much money. Not sure what we could call such a system though... Rofl. I'm sure we can come up with some kind of name. Something that accentuates, you know, the social aspect of the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 (edited) I have an idea. We could take a portion of the money from those who are more dedicated and/or talented, and give it to less talented or less dedicated, so that everyone gets just as much money. Not sure what we could call such a system though... Err.. I think that's already been tried my friend. It wasn't what I was suggesting though, if that's what you are trying to get at. I will ignore your other inane or insulting comments (isn't this forum supposed be moderated?). But please, explain to me why you think the 3rd world is still poor. Actually, don't bother. I think we've probably gone off-topic quite enough for one thread. Edited September 14, 2008 by bombus multiple post merged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 It's the companies! The companiiiieeeess! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 It's the companies! The companiiiieeeess! You are learning well my friend. Award yourself a pat on the back. But as punishment for their crimes of greed, western capitalism is now crumbling fast, so maybe things will get better - if the USA can resist pressing the button out of spite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 It is pretty hard to resist pushing the button sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Skeptic Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 (edited) But as punishment for their crimes of greed, western capitalism is now crumbling fast, so maybe things will get better - if the USA can resist pressing the button out of spite. So, how does crumbling fast make things better? We're going to stay capitalist for the foreseeable future, in any case. But being a critic is easy. What system do you think would be better than capitalism? It is pretty hard to resist pushing the button sometimes. Who's button? Edited September 15, 2008 by Mr Skeptic multiple post merged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saryctos Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 So, how does crumbling fast make things better? We're going to stay capitalist for the foreseeable future, in any case. But being a critic is easy. What system do you think would be better than capitalism? DictatorialCommunistUtopianism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 (edited) DictatorialCommunistUtopianism? Democratic Socialism European Style with a Side Salad of Truth. Capitalism with brakes - you can't get too rich, but you can't get too poor either. This rewards the hard working but doesn't let the unfortunate sink without a trace. You see, a little capitalism is a good thing, as it encourages enterprise and hard work, but a little socialism is good too as it encourages fair play and equality of opportunity. Easy! Failing that Dictatorial Utopianism could be good - so long as the emphasis on the Utopianism of course - oh, and also if I'm the Dictator:-) Edited September 16, 2008 by bombus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphus Posted September 16, 2008 Share Posted September 16, 2008 The ideal form of government is AntiAmericanism. It doesn't really have any specific political philosophy behind it other than, on every possible issue, always taking the exact opposite stance of the United States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pangloss Posted September 17, 2008 Share Posted September 17, 2008 You're forgetting that that only applies when Americans elect Republicans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bombus Posted September 6, 2009 Share Posted September 6, 2009 The ideal form of government is AntiAmericanism. It doesn't really have any specific political philosophy behind it other than, on every possible issue, always taking the exact opposite stance of the United States. If you say so. It wasn't what I said though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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