British sailors taken by Iran

[bombus]

Look, I don't think capitalism is perfect, or even ultimately good for the human race. But it's better than the alternatives. What makes you think that life is supposed to be all smooth and easy going? Life is hard man. And capitalism taps into the human spirit and maximizes a person's potential and drive. Good things happen when you do that. Greed can ugly it up, but all systems have bad symptoms, and I believe greed is the preferred problem over the others. Like Herbert Hoover said, the only thing wrong with capitalism is capitalists.

 

And where are you expecting to get? This is a discussion and debate forum. Agreeing on stuff is no fun.

 

 

 

As a scientists you should know that capitalism will fail because it relies on endless economic growth, but we live on a planet with finite resources, so endless economic growth is impossible. Capitalism is really just one big pyramid scheme. The thing is, like those who get in early on pyramid schemes, the rewards are great, but those further down the line end up ruined.

 

This is exactly what capitalism is doing to the planet right now. Those further down the line (our children/grandchildren) will pay the price of our riches. The light that burns twice as bright lasts half as long, and capitalism is burning so very very brightly.

 

Capitalism is the hare to the tortoise of Communism (although I prefer to call myself an environmentalist).

 

If the human race paced itself in a more planned global system for the benefit of all mankind we could last long enough to develop technologies that would ensure our continued survival, but capitalism wastes so much on crap we don't need, all our resources will have been gone long before we can conquer the stars, and once they're gone, we're neolithic man for evermore.

 

Sir Fred Hoyle in 1964 put it bluntly.

"It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on the Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing intelligence this is not correct. We have or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of them there will be one chance, and one chance only."

 

You want a better system than capitalism? Easy - Democratic Socialism. It doesn't mean you can't get rich, it would just put limits on how rich you can get (maybe no-one should earn more than say $200,000 a year) and limits on how poor you can get too.

[bombus]

I have read a good deal of Karl Marx, actually. I thought it was quite beautiful, and that he said a lot of true and insightful things about human beings, and really captured the bad sides of capitalism quite well. I also noticed that "Communism" in Marx's conception A) doesn't resemble any form of "Communism" which has actually existed since then, and B) was a prediction, not a suggestion.

 

Yes you are quite right on all counts, and Communism was basically tried too early!

 

Marx said we'd have to get through capitalism which would bring us to socialism and eventual communism.

 

Communism would only really be possible in a post industrial utopia such as The Culture in Ian M Banks' novels. The question is, how do we get there? Capitalism may kill us all before we even get close.

[ParanoiA]

As a scientists you should know that capitalism will fail because it relies on endless economic growth, but we live on a planet with finite resources, so endless economic growth is impossible. Capitalism is really just one big pyramid scheme. The thing is, like those who get in early on pyramid schemes, the rewards are great, but those further down the line end up ruined.

 

I'm not a scientist. Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night...

 

Honestly, I don't know why they even let me post here. But, this forum consists of people who think and use logic and support their views. That's hard to find in any political-only forum. All I ever got was people posting propaganda-esque arguments with a complete absence of logic and respect.

 

Anyway, I'm sure you're more studied in these political systems than I. The one thing that jumps out at me though is that the capitalist system puts the power in the hands of the consumer. The american consumer can demand and influence business practice. They're not doing it right now - at all. I know you see capitalism as a runaway train, but the truth is it's just a matter of time before we come around. It's happening already with the global warming debate firing people up.

 

But communism, socialism - whatever "ism" you choose is still wasteful. It's just a shift in power. Instead of power residing in the people, you put it in the ruler or what have you.

 

You're posting in this forum with a machine you don't need. Most modern societies are extremely wasteful - destroying resources for stuff we want, not what we need. We don't need automobiles. Not bad enough to destroy the environment in the process. You and everyone else in this forum is part of the problem - and all of us are in various countries around the world. This is not just a shortcoming of capitalism. Communism can be just as wasteful. It's really just a power shift. So, communism can be easier to influence the people, but can still be irresponsible.

 

Yes capitalism is wasteful, because the people have not demanded otherwise. We love our little gadgets and we don't care who suffers so we can get them cheap. This will change and is changing, I believe, right now.

 

Capitalism requires faith in people. That's hard to do. Much more attractive to just control the little ****ers. I think that's the attraction to communism. You prefer to control people and their lives. You are more comfortable forcing your ideas on everyone else rather than to pursuade their cooperation - which is required in a capitalist soceity.

 

I also think you're painting a bleak picture out of paranoia. You really think oil is going to be our source of energy in 100 years? I think it will be eliminated from use entirely. And in the process, the lessons learned will stick with us. Capitalism, with it's harnessed greed, will develop these technologies. They're doing it right now. Why? Because consumers are demanding it. I put the blame where it resides - us. All of us.

 

Sir Fred Hoyle in 1964 put it bluntly.

"It has often been said that, if the human species fails to make a go of it here on the Earth, some other species will take over the running. In the sense of developing intelligence this is not correct. We have or soon will have, exhausted the necessary physical prerequisites so far as this planet is concerned. With coal gone, oil gone, high-grade metallic ores gone, no species however competent can make the long climb from primitive conditions to high-level technology. This is a one-shot affair. If we fail, this planetary system fails so far as intelligence is concerned. The same will be true of other planetary systems. On each of them there will be one chance, and one chance only."

 

Wow, what a narrow minded view. To assume a higher intelligent form of life would have any need for these things. To assume the next intelligent life forms would even consider such shallow thinking as to use those elementary, archaic forms of energy. I'm not nearly so close minded as to presume such things.