-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 When someone thinks of a solution that works with what they already know, does it cause it to be true? Does thought shape the universe? Or is this just a stupid idea :bs: ? What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 It may not be the truth, it just seems to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Why not? Is there anyway to prove it, or disprove it? It just seems what people think of, that is logical, turns out to be true. The most logical is usually the most simple one, so maybe we only proved the validity of Razor's law: the simplest solution is usually the correct one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Given the complexity of the universe and trying to mathematically describe it, the simplest view of the universe held by the majority of people is not even close to correct. The standard view of the universe isn't close to correct either, but alot closer than the simplest possible view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 EinsteinTheory said in post # :Why not? Is there anyway to prove it, or disprove it? It just seems what people think of, that is logical, turns out to be true. The most logical is usually the most simple one, so maybe we only proved the validity of Razor's law: the simplest solution is usually the correct one. That's an oversimplification of Occam's Razor. And the world WASN'T flat when people thought it was. There WAS quantum effects when Laplacian determinism was in vogue. And so forth. I'd advise reading a book on empirical method; the essays by Kuhn in 'On the Structure of Scientific Revolutions' may be a tad 'dull', so maybe a book by SJ Gould. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 What is this Occam's Razor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadote Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Occam's Razor is a principle that was stated by William of Ockham. It basically says that principle gives precedence to the simpler of two alternatives, (i.e. of two theories the simpler should be preferred) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : And the world WASN'T flat when people thought it was. http://www.flat-earth.org Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Cap'n Refsmmat said in post # : http://www.flat-earth.org That kinda proves MrL's point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Did you like it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Seen it before. They're ACTUALLY INSANE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Your thinking only shapes the universe if you "know" it's true. So the people who only "thought" they know couldn't "know" so thats not how the universe exists. The smart people who "know" that what they "know" has to be true to explain the it in a way that they can understand. The idea that "thinking" can make someting happen for no reason it inplausable, but if you "know" it's the only way to explain the universe in a way that wouldn't destroy their whole world. Like when a child first find out that they will die someday. It completely destroys and reorients how they live their life. It's a cool idea that someone could change the universe to avoid another experience like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 If a child never found out he would die, he would still die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 The child holds his parant's words to be absolute truth. If the parant says that one day they will die, and they know might know about relatives such as Great Grandpa died(EX), then they will accepted it as reality. But the Scientist who really knows nothing for certain about his scientific project can to conjure idea that makes sense and it can become true. He dosn't know if it can be true or not, but it makes sense, so it can become true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 ...until someone proves him wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 To person who proved it wrong it makes even more sense that it not be true, so it's not true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 So that thinking did not change the universe. It can become true, but it always was, so he didn't change anything. He was basing it on what he saw before (hopefully) and so it already happened, he just theorized on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I think the universe plodded on quite happily for billions of years before we showed up, and has barely changed since we arrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 In all honesty, you completely lost me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Well, isn't that ironic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 I was responding to the post before yours, thank you. Thanks though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Oh that. Well, it wasn't just you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 Well anyway, the Human beings before us on other planets could have formed the universe using there minds, before we reconfigured it to fit our way of thinking. PS I know what your thinking about other human beings, so I will explain how I think of it: If the universe has lasted forever and always existed, then there was intelingent life before we existed. The only logical form of inteligent life is the human being. If you really think about it it really is. I hope i don't have any spelling errors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 The current model shows that the universe has not always existed. However, given its size, it's likely there is human-like life out there somewhere. "The only logical form of inteligent life is the human being" needs to be qualified. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 okay, I'm sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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