JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :I support legalization because it benefits SOCIETY AND PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO USE DRUGS NO MATTER HOW MUCH THE GOVERNMENT TRIES TO SCARE IT OUT OF THEM. SCARE TACTICS DO NOT WORK. Given that your stance of 'education education education' appears to be basically 'not lie to the children', which is identical to mine, I don't see how comments on scare tactics distinguishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Our government neither adequately funds treatment programs (because all the money is spent on arresting people for drugs) nor has nationalized health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :Our government neither adequately funds treatment programs (because all the money is spent on arresting people for drugs) nor has nationalized health care. Hard luck for american addicts then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : Given that your stance of 'education education education' appears to be basically 'not lie to the children', which is identical to mine, I don't see how comments on scare tactics distinguishes. Fear of being arrested will not stop people from using drugs, no matter how many people they arrest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : Hard luck for american addicts then Hence my support for a policy that focuses on using education and treatment to reduce the drug problem. Prohibition simply does not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :Hence my support for a policy that focuses on using education and treatment to reduce the drug problem. Prohibition simply does not work. Do you support nationalised health care, and, if you had to, would you implement the drugs policy to the exclusion of national health, or vice versa? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 [temp note for mrl, i'm going to eat dinner now i'll continue this good debate in about 40 minutes] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :Fear of being arrested will not stop people from using drugs, no matter how many people they arrest. WARNING, ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE Quite a few people I know have said that the only reason they don't do drugs is fear of getting caught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :[temp note for mrl, i'm going to eat dinner now i'll continue this good debate in about 40 minutes] I'm liking the possible move into national health in general, rather than specifically drugs policy, because it's something that hasn't been discussed for 13 pages already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 That is sad. They should say, "the reason I don't do drugs is because everyone says they'll roast my brain and then have a fiesta with the remnants." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meerschaum Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Alot of people see drug users are evil by default and they are chosing to gnore the true evil/wrongness wich is people bieng raped and contracting HIV in prison for the simple fact they happend to be caught with drugs. If you dont believe prison rape occures go check out google, it does and its an epidemic problem thats why Bush signed the prison rape prevention act or some such in 03 If you think its acceptable that a person caught with drugs be punished by inhumane conditions that ultimately lead to death and further criminalization , shame on you! I was going to post in this thread several other times but I abstained from doing so because I see nobody seems open and everyone here is either pro or con, and NO I'm not a drug addict or an ex-con or something, but I've seen many people I went to school and grew up with become irreguler users, then addicts and instead of treatment and rehabilitation they went to prison and I dont care how big the sign is 'correctional facility' it does anything but correct people, it turns screwed up people into monsters and its not right. A person who is addicted to a substance needs HELP they dont need punishment. I know this from having had the sad job of showing up at funerals of friends who died before their time because they where too ignorant to know what they getting into and too afraid or ashamed to seek help. I'm not really for legalization of any drug, I'm more for de-criminalization of drugs, build a legal framework that prosecutes people who deal drugs for profit, deal to minors, or push drugs , but a framework that dosent put users into prison, a framework that is education, treatment, and rehabilitation centric. The best prevention is education. Our current framework isnt working, the fact that its been in place so long and we still have the same problems with drugs today that have existed since the 70's shows this. The drugs change the problems do not. sorry if my spelling here sucks guys, I'm dyslexic and my grammers always sucked, I hope you understand I dont entirely disagree with anyone here, but you gotta realise that drug abuse isnt like infotainment television, its a real problem and needs to be stomped out but not in the way that is currently in place, its just not working. I for one went through the schools 'dare' program wich mixes truth with non-truth and focuses primarily opon prevention of cigarette smoking, it didnt scare me or teach me in the least, or I should say it taught me the WRONG things and it made me sceptical, especially when I heard them say things like 'heroin is less destructive and addictive than tobacco' 'one hit of LSD often ruins the users mind' 'marijuana causes most rape' 'alcohol is worse than crack cocaine' (a teachers words pulled from my memory) what kind of a messege do you think THAT sent to us? kids who've seen our parents smoking and quitting, drinking and having fun? that was horrible and that is the kind of education that is very counter productive, since they think 'of course they wont encounter heroin, so we'll use heroin to scare them off cigarettes since they saw heroin as bad in a movie' ... very very very bad. I was a depressed person at that point in my life, I think alot of young teenagers are, and it lead me down the road to drugs, I regret that very much but at the same time I'm greatful I didnt wind up addicted to anything I couldnt quit and was given a second chance, alot of my friends from that time moved onto hard narcotics and are dead or imprisoned now. my LAST post on this subject.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Bravo, bravo! Encore! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Meerschaum: That's mostly a criticism of the prison service, rather than drug policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : WARNING, ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE Quite a few people I know have said that the only reason they don't do drugs is fear of getting caught. But despite the increasing risk of getting caught, drug use is not declining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 The problem with just decriminalization is that it doesn't eliminate the illicit market or increase the safety of drugs (through quality control and standardized dosage units). The majority of drug-related crimes are related to disputes between drug dealers and the general black market culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :The problem with just decriminalization is that it doesn't eliminate the illicit market or increase the safety of drugs (through quality control and standardized dosage units). The majority of drug-related crimes are related to disputes between drug dealers and the general black market culture. Yep. Decriminilisation, if anything, makes things worse. ps. Reply to my 'Universal health' post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 I'm for it, but do not think its fiscally possible at this stage. I believe the first step is taking the massive budget for the DEA, cutting it by at least 75%, decriminalizing drugs, and putting all the saved money towards treatment and education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 Another issue to address.. Who uses drugs? Is it more common in poorer people? Before you look it up, answer what you think right now because that probably shapes your opinion a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :Another issue to address.. Who uses drugs? Is it more common in poorer people? Before you look it up, answer what you think right now because that probably shapes your opinion a bit. Cannabis has (in britain at least) traditionally been a more working class drug. Cocaine, upper (or at least the very rich) and heroin lower or working classes, so it's hard to say. I'd suspect that there may be more drugs use from the very rich and the very poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 23, 2004 Author Share Posted January 23, 2004 There is NO correlation between socioeconomic status and drug use with any substance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :There is NO correlation between socioeconomic status and drug use with any substance. I'd believe that, given the prevalence for individual choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 fafalone said in post # :There is NO correlation between socioeconomic status and drug use with any substance. Gah, you beat me to the punch. I was about to note that there was no apparent link between status and prevalence of drugs like ecstasy, LSD, amphetamines etc. At least, not at a societal high level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Drugs are bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Demosthenes- Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Just having some fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted January 24, 2004 Author Share Posted January 24, 2004 -Demosthenes- said in post # :Drugs are bad. Just about everyone does drugs in one way or another. Caffeine, nicotine, cold medicines, aspirin.. Never make sweeping statements about all drugs unless you're very very careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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