I was chatting to a friend the other day, said he couldn`t sleep because he couldn`t resolve why 2 parts H and 1 part O as a gas when mixed doesn`t turn to water, I explained that, so no problems there... he went on to ask about water and a kazillion other things etc...

between us we came up with a neat Idea (potentialy) for an engine, it seemed perfectly feasible at the time, I want to share it with you, and see what you all think, If it`s crap, move it to Pseudo Science...

 

air`s 21% O2. so 5 parts Air to 1 part Hydrogen (molar) would roughly be the ideal combustion ratio.

but it burns at about 3000 K (a big waste of heat for an engine!).

So... Air/Hydrogen and a Water spray injected into the engine (all timed correctly of course). the excess heat would vaporise the water creating more steam and volume, and ALSO keeping the chamber cooler.

if the H and Air mix gave 10 vols of gas, adding water would Increase it, and cool the excess heat turning it into usable power.

 

Imagine a car that ran on Hydrogen and a glass of water

 

input and ideas appreciated

If you make it so the waste gasses go at high speed out the back, you have a rocket!

 

(Hydrogen and oxygen are the fuels used in rocketary)

 

In addition, hydrogen fuel cells have been in research for a while

 

You've reinvented the wheel again

Huh?

We were talking the "Internal Combustion" engine here.

based on the Deisel principal.

Oxy-Hydrogen isn`t just the domain of rockets either for 2 reasons, Oxy-Hydrogen has been used in cutting torches for about a century, and Oxy-Hydrogen is no longer used as gasses as a rocket propellant.

 

as for "Fuel cells" LOL, why suffer the losses used in energy conversion? why not use it neat, and bypass all the charging and losses used in: Heat, EM,RF etc,,,

why not cut to the chase and use existing tech and just modify it a bit?

In cutting torches, it's more usually oxygen and ethyne. (oxyacetylyne [sp?]).

 

And what are you talking about here:

 

as for "Fuel cells" LOL, why suffer the losses used in energy conversion? why not use it neat, and bypass all the charging and losses used in: Heat, EM,RF etc,,,

why not cut to the chase and use existing tech and just modify it a bit

 

My personal response to that would be 'whut?'

 

In addition, I never said it was just used in rocketry, just the ideas have been thought of before.

Oxy-Hydrogen has been used in cutting torch along with oxy-aceytalene,ethene,propane,butane etc...

 

well instead of using deisel (hydrocarbons) why not a mix of Hydrogen, Air, Water. to create the *Bang* needed in each cylinder?

 

plain Air Hydrogen would work sure, but the heat would be too high, and the gas vol too low, so as a "trade off" add some water, that will quench the heat by turning to steam and also increase the gas vol

just that simple

 

nowt to do with Rockets at all, that`s an unecesary sidetrack.

Is hydrogen cheaper/safer than diesel ?

Safe? Um, does the word 'Hindenburg' mean anything to you?

air`s 21% O2. so 5 parts Air to 1 part Hydrogen (molar) would roughly be the ideal combustion ratio.

but it burns at about 3000 K (a big waste of heat for an engine!).

So... Air/Hydrogen and a Water spray injected into the engine (all timed correctly of course). the excess heat would vaporise the water creating more steam and volume, and ALSO keeping the chamber cooler.

if the H and Air mix gave 10 vols of gas, adding water would Increase it, and cool the excess heat turning it into usable power.

 

So you're saying combust hydrogen and air (rather the oxygen IN the air) to push a piston (or whatnot), and then cool the chamber with water to create steam which could also be harnessed for energy?

atinymonkey said in post #7 :

Safe? Um, does the word 'Hindenburg' mean anything to you?

 

It was a rhetorical question

YT2095 said in post #5 :

nowt to do with Rockets at all, that`s an unecesary sidetrack.

 

Looks exactly the same to me, except the gas drives a piston rather than just moving the thing by conservation of momentum.

Blike, in a nutshell yes

Kedas said in post #9 :

 

It was a rhetorical question

 

It was a rhetorical answer

Safe?

well, that REALLY depends on conditions in all honesty.

If they use fuel cells succesfully then the transport of Hydrogen in suitable containers would be yes.

I would gladly TRY and light a match in a pure Hydrogen atmosphere, fact is, it probably wouldn`t even light

 

MrL, how can you possibly say "Looks exactly the same to me, except the gas drives a piston rather than just moving the thing by conservation of momentum" in that case then ethanol based cars are the same as there is more ethanol based Rocket motors than Hydrogen+Oxygen gass based ones. the rocket idea need not apply at all? it`s an irrelevance, it`s like saying bicycle tyres have something to do with it because we use air in them???

Think "Internal Combustion engine" based on the Deisel principal, just using different fuels, water being one of them (as an expansive and cooling agent) that`s virtualy free

Where is the difference between the internal combustion engine and the rocket, aside from one drives a piston (and therefore produces rotational motion) and one drives the vehicle itself?

 

The comparison with the tyre is just silly.

well, that REALLY depends on conditions in all honesty.

 

Yes, of course it depends on the conditions but we assume the same conditions for a 'safety tets' otherwise it would be like cheating.

 

Having to add money to it to make it equally safe means it's not that safe.

OK... before I get flooded with stuff here.

1`st. MrL, Why did you mention Rockets at all?

2`nd. Kedas, Hydrogen CAN and HAS been used perfectly safely, and although it needs modifications to a regular car (no Petrol tank etc...) it is no more unstable in correct conditions than Petroleum fuel, In fact Petrol is probably less safe the way it is stored than Hydrogen would be, I`de like to see an M-80 rip through a Hydrogen tank

Rocket powered cars you say?

ROFLOL @ Sayonara, do you go to USF too?

No...

 

I'd buy one though