The Thing Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Is it possible to accumulate a level of cyanide in human's blood (by prolonged exposure to, say, KCN, in a poorly-conditioned factory) that's high enough to kill small animals when they bite you, without killing the human? I'm asking this because today I was having a wonderful zoning-out session then I remembered something my dad told me a few years ago. He told me a story of a guy in a very poorly conditioned factory working with potassium cyanide, and he was under constant exposure to KCN. The dosage he got everyday from the fumes and stuff was small, and it didn't kill him. After about 20 years in that hell of a place, one day he got bitten by a cobra (or was it a rattlesnake, can't remember). He didn't die, but the snake died after biting him. Apparently, it was the cyanide accumulated in his blood that poisoned the snake to death. Of course, my dad told me this for entertainment, but now I'm thinking if that really IS possible, that after years of constant exposure to cyanide you get used to it but your blood's cyanide level gets so high that it is able to poison small animals. So, is this possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nevermore Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 It is theoreticly possible, but snakes don't drink your blood when the bite you. A vampire bat or leech on the other hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rakuenso Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I doubt cyanide can detoxify a snake's venom anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Actually I think if the concentration starts rro rise above a certain percent then your liver wil start to break it down, this can have some bad side effects though. Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Cyanide isn`t cumulative, it has a similar action to carbon monoxide, that isn`t cumulative either. I think he was having a bit of fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Cyanide isn`t cumulative, it has a similar action to carbon monoxide, that isn`t cumulative either. I think he was having a bit of fun Sounds like.... Dosen't Carbon Monoxide form a strong bond with Haemoglobin,forming Carboxyhaemoglobin, thus rendering the molecule usless? I would consider that a cumulative effect given enough of it inhaled... Although the blood cells would quiteprobptly be destoyed as a result... Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woelen Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Indeed, cyanide is not cumulative and it is metabolized fairly quickly. Either you have a lethal dose and it kills you quickly, or you recover from it and all traces of cyanide disappear from the body within hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdurg Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Sounds like.... Dosen't Carbon Monoxide form a strong bond with Haemoglobin' date='forming Carboxyhaemoglobin, thus rendering the molecule usless? I would consider that a cumulative effect given enough of it inhaled... Although the blood cells would quiteprobptly be destoyed as a result... Cheers, Ryan Jones[/quote'] Exactly. If your red blood cells never died, never got destroyed, and never got replaced, then yes CO and CN- would be cumulative poisons. But your blood is constantly being regenerated and replaced and those cells which have been affected are eventually destroyed and replaced with new red blood cells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 H2S does a similar thing too, basicly you die of Oxygen deprivation at every level, it binds with the heamoglobin more readily than Oxygen does, in fact it can displace it, and of course without Oxygen... IIRC, the color Cyan (a blue green) is what gives CYANide its name, also in the medical term when someone become Cyanotic (lips and part of the fingernails turn blue). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thing Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 Thx for the replies everyone. I now understand that cyanide is metabolized and after a few hours it's gone, so the body can't accumulate it. But, say you're in exposure of cyanide constantly, day and night, and the cyanide does not kill you, but there isn't a moment when you are away from it (say in that factory in my story), what happens then? Well, there goes my story of the snake getting killed by the poision of his victim... Down the drain *swirl* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 it all depends on the equilibrium of Regeneration VS Destruction, if your exposed more than you can assimilate then you`ll die, if it`s borderline then you`ll be very Ill and stay that way untill your liver gives up, if it`s Less than, then your overall health will be affected, but not enough to kill you. of course a 24/7 scenario is highly unlikely. incidently, did you know that HCN is the gas used in the Gas Chamber to execute bad guys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thing Posted October 14, 2005 Author Share Posted October 14, 2005 Oh yea, Germans during WWII used them against Jews. Not that the Jews are the bad guys. I think I've also heard from someone that HCN is also used in US Execution Chambers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrus Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Sounds like.... Dosen't Carbon Monoxide form a strong bond with Haemoglobin' date='forming Carboxyhaemoglobin, thus rendering the molecule usless? I would consider that a cumulative effect given enough of it inhaled... Although the blood cells would quiteprobptly be destoyed as a result... Cheers, Ryan Jones[/quote'] But caboxyhaemoglobin can be removed from the blood by breathing pure oxygen right ? My source was an IGCSE book I think ..... : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 actualy, ANY type of GAS attack, your imediate priority is to get to a source of Fresh Air and NOT Panic! it`ll work with all of these (and more), barring a lethal dose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanJ Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 But caboxyhaemoglobin can be removed from the blood by breathing pure oxygen right ? My source was an IGCSE book I think ..... : ) Nope, not as far as I am aware... The bond between Carbon Monoxide and haemoglobin forms a very secure bond, it does not allow the Carbon Monoxide to detatch and thus thats why it is dangerous in large doses Once the caboxyhaemoglobin is formed it must be destroyed as the caboxyhaemoglobin molecule can no longer carry an oxygen.... Cheers, Ryan Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 True. Pure oxygen is used as a compensatory measure only. It allows non-blocked haemaglobin to work more efficiently (compensating for the overall reduced O2 capacity of the blood) until you can get rid of the monoxide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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