Psychopathy and evolution

[Otto Kretschmer]

I wonder...

Unlike say, autism which does have it's positive sides, psychopathy has none I can think of. It's existence seems to be a net loss to society.

If that's the case, why haven't genes responsible for it been bred out of the gene pool yet? Should we use gene editong to eliminate potential psychopaths given the harm they cause, once the necessary technology becomes available?

[CharonY]

Several issues with the argument. The first, not all traits are under selection. In fact, most are likely not. Second, many traits, including autism, are not fully genetic, and even if under negative selection are not expected to be vanish entirely. Third, whatever advantages autism confers, is highly situation dependent and especially on the more extreme end, the negatives vastly outlast the positives. Conversely, psychopaths are becoming CEOs https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackmccullough/2019/12/09/the-psychopathic-ceo/?sh=7dfff38d791e

 

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, CharonY said:

Conversely, psychopaths are becoming CEOs

Yes, I was going to point out that psychopaths can be quite successful at manipulating others and getting what they want.  Which undoubtedly includes reproduction (even if the interest in child nurturing is zero).  Women, like men, can make poor choices in mate selection and be duped by superficial charm and attractiveness.  E.g. Ivana Trump. 🙂

And there is not a specific clinical definition or clearcut genotype for it, though there are some genes associated with an increased risk of psychopathy.  There are some neuroanatomical studies out there that have found distinct brain variants which include a switched off orbitofrontal cortex and limbic system, smaller amygdala and differences in connections from amygdala to pre frontal cortex.  But there are also non-psychopaths (and non ASPD) who may have these variations.

[Pachycephalosaurusfan]

Psycopathy was probably useful in hunting, fighting and other dangerous activites, as they showed very little fear (often). Correct me if im wrong.

[Night FM]

On 2/7/2024 at 12:31 PM, Otto Kretschmer said:

I wonder...

Unlike say, autism which does have it's positive sides, psychopathy has none I can think of. It's existence seems to be a net loss to society.

If that's the case, why haven't genes responsible for it been bred out of the gene pool yet? Should we use gene editong to eliminate potential psychopaths given the harm they cause, once the necessary technology becomes available?

I don't believe that psychopathy is entirely genetic. Some of it is learned behavior from one's environment or culture (e.x. a child who's father is a member of a drug cartel is probably more likely to engage in criminal behavior).

"Gene-editing" people without their consent would potentially violate people's rights under the law, and I believe a good amount of society would oppose it, for similar reasons that population control is often opposed (even though, theoretically, I do believe we would be better off if certain abusive or negligent individuals were not allowed to have children of their own. However suggesting this in practice, in my experience, tends to be derided as "fascist" or "eugenical" even if factors such as race are excluded from the equation).

On 3/11/2024 at 2:16 PM, Pachycephalosaurusfan said:

Psycopathy was probably useful in hunting, fighting and other dangerous activites, as they showed very little fear (often). Correct me if im wrong.

I'd argue that dangerous or risky activities can still be useful, such as people who serve in military combat or law enforcement, or activities which require taking necessary risks. Even science requires risk-taking. So this may be why the traits themselves haven't disappeared. It's when they are used in destructive ways that it is considered psychopathic.

(e.x. "Violence" itself still has positive uses, such as in the scenarios I mentioned regarding military and law enforcement. Taking risks is somewhat unavoidable in daily life, since even driving to the grocery store runs the risk of dying in a car accident, and advancing new scientific theories or starting a successful business requires risk-taking. An OCD extreme where a person is afraid to leave their room due to fear of being struck by a lightning bolt every time they venture outside wouldn't be socially healthy).

Edited August 28 by Night FM

[LuckyR]

And even the genetic component of psychopathy is likely mostly spontaneous mutations (as opposed to being inherited). Thus cannot be selected out of existence.

[CharonY]

22 minutes ago, LuckyR said:

And even the genetic component of psychopathy is likely mostly spontaneous mutations (as opposed to being inherited). Thus cannot be selected out of existence.

That would an extemely rare event as most mutations are neutral. And it  is unlikely to be just genetic anyway. But of course mutations are also under selection, that is how evolution works.