AIDS: Ancient or a new disease?

[MaxCathedral]

I was just wondering if AIDS was really an ancient disease, not discovered in past centuries, or is it truly a new disease?

[genetic]

the earliest AIDS case can be traced back to an english sailor who died of it in 1959. The doctors were stuned by the death that they froze his blood and tissue samples.

 

"Based on the genetic dissimilarity of the various subtypes and known mutation rates of HIV-1, this virus most likely made the transition from chimpanzees circa 1930. It was then that the chimp SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) crossed over to a new genus and species, perhaps infecting humans when they killed and ate the animals" - Zimmerman, Barry Killer Germs p 204

 

Thats the best info I can give you on when the virus started infecting humans, but its very possible that HIV AIDS has been around for centuries, but just hadn't jumped species yet.

[zyncod]

It's actually probable that the virus made the jump before then. But, given the relative isolation of populations in Africa prior to the twentieth century, HIV never managed to develop into a full-blown epidemic until this century. Despite the fatality of the virus, it still is rather hard to transmit.

[ed84c]

The virus passed from chimps to humans after a smallpox vaccine (which are grown in primate kidneys) was infected with it and went into the patient.

 

AIDs is a fragile virus, cooking or even exposing to air, kills it.

[Aardvark]

The virus passed from chimps to humans after a smallpox vaccine (which are grown in primate kidneys) was infected with it and went into the patient.

 

I've heard theories that it made the jump to humans in a batch of Polio vaccine.

 

I don't think it's been established as fact where this is true.

[ed84c]

yeh maybe it was polio, i forget.

[zyncod]

SV40 - a cancer-causing virus - was proven to be transmitted in a polio vaccine. I don't think that HIV was - at least to the extent that doctors recognized the transmitted HIV/AIDS for what it was.

[Firedragon52]

I believe, at least in The United States, HIV was discovered, in the early 80's, among the homosexual male community.

 

Just to say that HIV was transmitted into the our species, how can its prevalence in the homosexual community be explained.

 

Just curious...

[LucidDreamer]

The virus passed from chimps to humans after a smallpox vaccine (which are grown in primate kidneys) was infected with it and went into the patient.

 

AIDs is a fragile virus' date=' cooking or even exposing to air, kills it.[/quote']

I've heard theories that it made the jump to humans in a batch of Polio vaccine.

 

I don't think it's been established as fact where this is true.

The theory proposes that HIV was introduced into the human population in sub-Sahara Africa in the 1950's from contaminated polio vaccine. Most polio vaccine was made in the West but some polio vaccine was actually made in Africa near the Congo area. It is the polio vaccinations that were made in Africa that were suspected to have been contaminated with SIV, an ape version of HIV.

 

It is widely believed that HIV1 was transmitted from chimpanzees to humans because chimpanzees have the form of simian SIV that is most similar to HIV1. The theory proposes that chimpanzee tissue was used for the growth media used to create the polio vaccination and that the chimpanzee tissue was contaminated with SIV. This batch of polio vaccination was then distributed throughout Africa and the HIV that we know today all originates from this vaccination.

 

This theory was never the dominant theory and it has fallen out of favor over the years, primarily for 3 reasons:

 

1) Mutational studies indicate that the HIV was introduced into the human population around 1930 and the vaccinations took place in the 50's.

 

2) The chimpanzees located near the site where the vaccination was made are not the chimpanzees that carry the SIV that is suspected to have mutated into HIV.

 

3) Most importantly, samples of the suspected batches were found to be SIV free and the tissues used for growth media appear to be from the mangabee monkey (could be wrong about the species of monkey) and not from chimpanzees.

 

The currently accepted theory is that the SIV infected humans in the jungles of Africa when hunters killed and slaughtered chimpanzees.

[LucidDreamer]

I believe' date=' at least in The United States, HIV was discovered, in the early 80's, among the homosexual male community.

 

Just to say that HIV was transmitted into the our species, how can its prevalence in the homosexual community be explained.

 

Just curious...

The spread of HIV can be traced to an extremely sexually active Homosexual male airline's steward. I think he is called patient zero. Although he was not the first person to catch the disease, he is attributed to starting the epidemic in the United States and I believe Europe as well. Patient zero frequently visited homosexual hotspots, such as the bathhouses of San Francisco.

 

Frequent visitations to the bath houses and other homosexual hot spots, where homosexual sex was extremely common, was the link that was found between early AIDS patients. This was even before it was called AIDS; is called gay cancer in San Francisco because it was occurring in mostly gay men and because of an uncommon form of cancer that developed among them.

 

There were most likely several cases of the disease in Africa before the 80's (and a few in other countries) but it was not recognized because they lacked western medicine.

[LucidDreamer]

I was just wondering if AIDS was really an ancient disease, not discovered in past centuries, or is it truly a new disease?

SIV, the name given to a virus similar to HIV that is found in monkeys and apes, is a very ancient disease. Almost all forms of African monkeys have a form of SIV, and in some cases the majority of the individuals of that species have the virus in their bloodstream. In fact, in most cases the monkeys and apes have very high viral loads, yet they do not ever become sick. Over thousands of years the monkey's immune systems and bodies have become resistant to any harmful effects. I am not sure that how they know this but it has been estimated that monkeys have been infected with SIV for hundreds of thousands of years and chimpanzees are suspected of being infected for tens of thousands of years.

 

As another poster has already pointed out it is likely that humans have been exposed several times to the SIV virus, but because people were relatively isolated back then, especially in the area around the Congo, the disease never spread and became an epidemic. They believe that the people that were exposed then probably spread the disease locally and then died off before they were able to spread it very far.

 

Since humans are so similar to monkeys and apes it is very easy for the disease to leap from species to species among the primates. In fact, HIV (SIV) has been transmitted from another primate species to humans more than once in just this century. HIV1, the predominate form of the virus, comes from chimpanzees, but HIV2, another form, is thought to have been transmitted from the Sooty Mangabee monkey.

[MetaFrizzics]

The entire discussion so far has left out active (deliberate) infection.

 

Given the standard 'overpopulation' arguments that have frightened white folk for nearly two centuries, and the active campaigns to try to stop 'ethnics' from multiplying, including the obvious Nazi attempt to exterminate 'Jews', it strains the imagination to believe that the rather 'sudden' AIDS epidemic among U.S. homosexuals was some kind of 'accident'.

 

Just take the parallel case with syphyllus, where dozens (probably more!) of Blacks were deliberately either infected or left untreated for decades in the name of 'science', so that Whitey could better assess the advanced stages of the disease. And was the whole effort for military purposes (i.e., genocide of Blacks)? Probably.

 

Now an 'AIDS' epidemic rages in Africa, the last and richest continent for Whitey to explore, conquer and exploit. And how will it be 'handled'? Massive 'vaccination' campaigns sponsored by Bill Gates of Microsoft (the latest incarnation of the 3rd Reich).

 

What is at stake? Africa. Who is in the way? Indigenous Blacks. What will happen? Guess.

 

The gays were vulnerable, and went down easily due to their own risky lifestyles. The Blacks will be dealt with more efficiently by vaccination. And at the same time, will be 'labelled' as 'promiscuous' to explain the murder.

[LucidDreamer]

The entire discussion so far has left out active (deliberate) infection.

Who do you think orchestrated it?

[Mokele]

This thread is in microbiology, not psuedoscience. Please keep baseless and ridiculous speculations to a minimum.

 

Mokele

[darkkazier]

Who do you think orchestrated it?

 

He thinks whitey(I.E. a western government) sponsored it.

[MetaFrizzics]

This thread is in microbiology, not psuedoscience. Please keep baseless and ridiculous speculations to a minimum.

Okay.

But it's not baseless to say that for the last 40 years the West and Russia have been the (only) ones actively engaged in biological warfare research, including 'test' infections on local populations.

 

The American AIDS 'epidemic' seems like a handy research project and kills queers as a bonus. It reflects exactly the attitude in the Pentagon. It recently came out that the West was going to unleash Athrax on the Germans in 1945, having made tons of the stuff in Canada.

 

But we're beyond that now, right?

 

Now we just accuse whole countries of possessing weapons of 'mass destruction', and then take their oil reserves. There's nobody around who'd stoop so low as to infect some gays. (I hope that doesn't sound too sarcastic.)

[LucidDreamer]

"Whitey's" plan has backfired. The western countries have already spent billions on AIDS research and medical care. Anyone with enough knowledge of genetics to unleash this epidemic would surely realize that the disease was not going to stay within the homosexual community and that heterosexuals would be infected as well. In fact the largest group of patients infected with the virus now in Africa is heterosexual females.

[MaxCathedral]

yes, yes, it all makes sense now....whitey, yes, whitey is behind it....wait...I am Whitey..this means, that I am behind it.....läßt Gans alle zusammen treten (lets all goose step together).....Mein Fuhrer!!!!!!!

 

someone call Art Bell...

 

Lucid: I too have heard of patient zero, if memory serves he was a Canadian airline steward, who used his free time...pleasurably.

[zyncod]

Nobody ever said that the Pentagon's plan had to make sense. In fact, when homosexuality was still a 'disease' in the DSM, the Pentagon paid for some research to see if homosexuality could be transmitted by a bacterium or a virus - the thought being that enemy troops would be too busy humping each other to fight (I kid you not).

 

Now, I will admit that a simian virus showing up suddenly in the US is a little suspicious. And I don't think that too many people in the Pentagon would have shed a bitter tear for people dying of a "gay cancer" (at least when HIV would have been in the planning stages in the 60s or 70s). And Tuskegee and the syphilis studies show that the US government was at one point not too discriminate about infecting its own citizens. But even after the last 40 years of US government, I still can't believe that they could be that evil.

 

More importantly, nothing the Pentagon/CIA/etc has ever done has shown signs of being that intelligent. To start the HIV pandemic, they would have had to recognize the potential of the HIV virus, of which few to one cases were reported prior to the 1980s. They would have had to study it clandestinely, and they would have had to infect people in order to do so (a simian/murine model for the disease was not available for a decade even after much extremely public research). And, in order for it to be the "gay plague," they would have had to somehow recognize that this unknown virus was very effectively transmitted anally. The Pentagon being behind HIV/AIDS is not utterly impossible, and I'm sure that somebody somewhere would have thought that this was a good idea in the 70s. It just strains credulity a little bit to think that our idiotic government could slip something like this under the radar for a quarter century.

[genetic]

I don't think AIDS was "engineered" by any country for any genetic cleansing, because at the time of WWII there was a lack of technology and knowledge. I believe the first antibiotics were comming out at that time I'm not sure.

 

Also I'm sure that the United States is not actively engaged in biological warfare research any longer (I can get an exact date when they stopped). which means they aren't creating a superbug. The US is engaged in finding vaccines and antibodies for these virulent "bugs"

[rakuenso]

the usamriid still houses god knows how many hot viruses...

[genetic]

usamriid is where all this research is done

[TheGeek]

AIDs is a fragile virus, cooking or even exposing to air, kills it.

 

does anyone know the exact time that it can survive outside of the human body?

[LucidDreamer]

Depends on the environment. It can survive days in body fluids outside the body. If it is dried it usually dies sooner than that. I read somewhere that the virus survived 11 days in untreated sewage. These are laboratory results though, where large quantities of the virus were used. In in-vivo conditions the quantities of the virus would be smaller and the chances of finding a live virus in the sample would be reduced. Normally, the virus only last a few hours until the fluids are dry.

[MetaFrizzics]

"Whitey's" plan has backfired.

Not yet. But it's certainly unravelling.

 

Nobody ever said that the Pentagon's plan had to make sense.

Precisely true. They are not rocket scientists. All the rocket scientists were German Nazis, like Werner Van Braun. By the way, have you looked at operation Northwoods? That was the Pentagon proposal by the Chiefs of Staff to Kennedy that they hijack a plane and crash it into some U.S. target, killing hundreds(thousands?) of their own citizens and then blame the Cubans. Kennedy said NO and was assassinated 3 months later. Isn't that idea creepily familiar now?

 

More importantly, nothing the Pentagon/CIA/etc has ever done has shown signs of being that intelligent.

Well, intelligence is relative.

 

I don't think AIDS was "engineered" by any country for any genetic cleansing

Countries don't do anything. Small groups of rich people in power do.

 

Also I'm sure that the United States is not actively engaged in biological warfare research any longer.

Oh, come on. We are supposed to believe that the CIA et al knit sweaters for senior citizens?