Alan McDougall

Really! heck I am cleverer than I thought

Matter cant move through space faster than the speed of light, but matter can move faster than light if it is embedded in space that is expanding at greater than light speed, such as extremely distant galaxies that are receding at more than light speed from us

What!

This is only partly tue, did the victims of the Holocaust create their own reality, or did Hitler

This is not true, Hitler was not half Jew, plese get your facts right.

HI LimbicLoser, It as a mistake the quoting your whole post I only intended to quote the last chapter but somehow that whole post of yours came out as a quote. It was very late over here in South Africa and I needed sleep so I just let it slide, sorry about that oversight I will return with a response a little later, I find this topic very interesting and you might have noticed I did not address it from a religious point of view I must add you have a really good grasp of the English Language, your writing skills are excellent in my opinion.

I till insist we humans are never going to explain, with the very best scientific method "all of EXISTENCE" and how and when and where it came from , if indeed it came from anywhere. We will long be extinct before we could reach that point. We are as yet mere humans, not even mature in our existence, there might be beings somewhere out in the vastness of the cosmos that are billions of years in advance of us in all aspects of knowledge, wisdom and maturity than us. Could we separate such beings from our ideas of a god? Just think of beings using scientific method for billions of years as apposed to our mere five/six hundred years we have used this method?

And God said "Let there be light and there was Light"

In my opinion,science will never explain everything; many things in science such as quantum physics just make no sense. Reality can be and is sometimes completely irrational to our limited minds. Existence or nature is infinite and eternal to suppose that a mere little entity living on a tiny spec on a very small galaxy,within and unmanageably vast universe could explain everything is just nonsense. Take the case of a frog; it is only programmed by evolution to notice only what it needs to notice to survive. For example, its eyes only reacts if something moves near it, such as an insect it needs to catch to eat and sustain itself. Other than that, it takes no notice of what is going on around it other than what it needs in order to survive. Thus, it has a very dim andvague almost non-existence view or understanding of the total reality around it.. Likewise we humans are programmed by nature to only observe what is essential to our survival (This has been proved) and this is but tiny portion of the total reality in the universe. Think! of the human eye it sends massages to our brains from a very tiny part of the electromagnetic spectrum. Yes it is true that we have made tools to look into areas our five senses cannot observe , but I can give you many other examples of how these senses are fooled and how we often fill in the gaps or blanks with false information. We notice only what we have been programmed by nature to notice only what we need to notice to survive, so to suggest that a tiny almost quantumly small entity, like humans, who are in reality a mere ordered water bag of protoplasm and chemicals will ultimately scientifically explain all of reality is simply nonsense.

I really like what you said!

Hi KJ, I remember you now, if we have to dismiss the use of the term god or almighty god from the question of this thread, what should we replace it with? Non- existence of a creator of all existence, maybe? Thanks KJ I just had another thought, thus the edit, we know from physics that there is an ultimate overall everlasting one way flow of entropy, (In a total system) from the very beginning (if there were a beginning) whenever, that was, which must have been then at "absolute lowest possible zero state of entropy" or "total order". Entropy continuing all the way down into the eternal future, finally ending up at "absolute total maximum state of entropy" or "total chaos or disorder". If this were the case we would reach a stage where nothing more could happen for all eternity and existence would stop. Thus is the energy in all of existence infinite and how can this be? This means that either nature is eternal or there might be a creator as of yet we dont really know the answer?

It seems to me we know know how it happens, eg by measuring or observing the wavefunction collapse, but why it happens is still a puzzle.

LimbicLoser Before I address your post, I cant say KJ means anything to me, except you might be someone who believes in some sort of a loving light force , if that is you we can address the topic further, if not I will answer your post as if it comes from a stranger?

Does this mean there is something mysterious operating at the fundamental level that in reality we dont understand?

Do you know me from elsewhere? I am not refering to any god of religion or demigod of any sort, the god I am thinking of would be more like an Infinite Intelligence or uncaused cause of all existence. A prime mover if you like. Thus if science finally comes up with a Theory of Everything and it can be proved as fact would this exclude the need for a god to explain existence?

Einstein once said "you dont really understand something yourself, unless you can explain it to your grandmother" How does the eigenvalue answer the question of, How and why does measuring a particle make its wavefunction collapse.?

So I am a childish, idiot who just babbles incherently, OK then knower of all things, what exactly are you right about and what exactly am I wrong about??. This question was posed as a scientific quest for truth, not a long winded cirular philosophical agument you brought up. What is your answer to the title of the thread?......................................?

Dont insult me I did not use a Straw Man argument I am not a child . Person A (Me) has position X (MY ARGUMENT THERE IS NO God). Person B (You) presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X). You just left this out using ………….? Person B (You) attacks position Y. (You attack your own position?) Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed (No it is not wrong science ultimately proves the non-existence of god by scientific method)

So you are correct and I am wrong, remember you were using subjective logic, I just reversed your whole subjective agrument to satisfy my own subjective logic like you did? What is TRUTH?

I dont agree why is it bad logic to try to find the source of something, the why of something and the how of something, this is science not the philosohy agrument you propose? It could be a contingent propsitionWhat about 1) I dont know. 2) .............. 3) Therefore no God

Why is it bad science if it leads to the understanding that there is no god, or that the same research leads to the conclusion that a Godlike entity is the only explaination for all of reality and infinite existence?

I disagree with you and so do many great scientists, both past and present, including many Nobel Prize winners. Somethings are obviously beyond the abilty of humans to comprehend and this will remain that way forever , because we are just little fallible balls of watery finite protein, trying in vain to explain how all of reality came to be in the first place. How can a finite entity ever explain Infinite Existence and reality?

As God, I have tried for time immemorial to get them to get on with each other,by giving them intelligence, using religion, using philosophy, psychology, putting a conscious within each of them so they can know when they are doing evil. All in vain. They are now much to my dismay running around all over my beautiful blue water world,like raving beasts so my mind is made up enough is enough

If I were god looking at the present madness in the world, with screaming religious fanatics running around like raving insane beasts, I would eliminate mankind from the earth and admit this part of my creation a huge colossal failure and start all over again, but this time not giving free will, but make them obey me in the absolute or cease to exist

Maybe what we call nature is really god in disguise and in the end science might have to concede that all of reality simply cannot be expained scientifically.