Peterkin

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

 I believe at one time there where lot of priests and Church’s very anti capitalism and supporting communism

And they were mercilessly persecuted by the church. Just as radical anti-slavery parsons were ostracized by Protestant churches. Jesus might not have approved of storing up riches in this world, but Big Religion was not averse to it.

How can you turn churches against wealth accumulation? Convert everyone to ascetic Hinduism.

54 minutes ago, Knowledge Enthusiast said:

Going forward into the year three trillion and beyond, it may be feasible to colonize the vastness of space and create literal heaven in this universe of ours. Of course, it is not a given that we reach three trillion and beyond but as far as we can tell, we are the best shot at heaven in this universe.

Yes, indeed: just look at the heaven we've made of this one planet. Except that "we" will not be anywhere at all by then, and neither will the Earth and whatever colonies it may have conquered in the meanwhile, because we're at the edge of the Milky Way galaxy and will be in the first encounter with Andromeda in something under 4 billion years.

How justice is administered is never a question of determining the freedom of will: all justice systems act as if  individuals were in control in their actions, just as all individuals experience our own actions as if  they were autonomous. Really, whether we have or have not free will makes no difference. 

The administration of justice: its principles, its aims, its forms and application all depend on the society's view of mankind and how each member fits into a society.

This sounds much too familiar. I guess we've been here before.

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

If we understand where free will, which is the point of this topic, actually exists in the human condition, then that knowledge when accepted by society, would automatically lead to a more refined understanding of justice and how to more appropriately deal with the perpetrator.

Like savages?

Quote

The purpose of a justice system in an Aboriginal society is to restore the peace and equilibrium within the community, and to reconcile the accused with his or her own conscience and with the individual or family who has been wronged.

http://www.ajic.mb.ca/volumel/chapter2.html

On 11/9/2023 at 9:35 AM, dimreepr said:

then it could liberate millions of prisoner's because we'd understand just how culpable they were and society would be satisfied with a far lower bar, as regards justice.

Prison sentences have very little to do with degree of culpability. They're a product of legislative decisions and the practice of law in a given society, which in turn are products of the culture and mood of the society. Justice systems as they exist today are all predicated on the presumption of free will: that an adult is responsible for all of his or her actions. More liberal-leaning systems allow for diminished capacity in certain conditions, or extenuating circumstances. The length of sentences don't always match the crime, let alone the freedom of the perpetrator's will.

Scientifically, I don't see this as a subject that lends itself to investigation or experimentation - except possibly for developing enhanced interrogation methods.

1 hour ago, HawkII said:

Would any of the Son of God's: Chairs, Tables, Three Legged Bar Stools  among other things remain intact today?

Unlikely, unless they were stored under museum vault conditions. However, if they were builder-carpenters, some of the old buildings in Nazareth village - which is a museum - may have original beams lifted in place by Joseph and his sons.

1 hour ago, kenny1999 said:

Without seeing a doctor, is there a general method to help with most, if not all, psychological diseases?

If you have a religious faith, the next best consultant would be a spiritual advisor.

Failing that, talking to wise elders (relative, mentor, family friend?) may be useful. If you have a spouse or significant other, they should certainly be made aware of your condition, and might be able to offer support. Consulting books or on-line sources of information may be a good idea, so long as you don't fall into some faddish regimen or self-medication. You could seek out support groups - live or on websites - with similar problems.

Whatever you decide, it's better to share the burden with people you trust than trying to manage on your own.  

Yes, a single tree can become self-pollinating with grafted branches. It's something of a fad among nurseries now to graft four or five different kinds of fruit into a single tree.  It should be done when the tree is quite young - 2-4 years is recommended. In late winter or early spring, when severe cold is over, but the leaves are not yet open.  

1 hour ago, kenny1999 said:

Wouldn't it be better to take fish oil tablets rather than wild-caught fish because many are advertised to have heavy metal removed or purified while wild-caught fish may contain some heavy metals.

Well, they're usually capsules, rather than tablets. But the contents are simply listed as 'salmon oil' or 'fish oil' and sometimes 'wild salmon oil'. I can think of only one reason why farmed fish wouldn't contain the same metals and other water contaminants as wild ones: the farm is in a no-outflow area. You have no way of knowing where the ones in you supplement were grown. A small advantage of the wild ones is that they have a fairly wide range and might have less exposure. 

The safest option is to devise a balanced, healthy diet and not depend on supplements. (Cheapest, too!) The second safest optiopnn is to buy the vegetable-based supplement. For the ecology --- who knows? 

You can always read the teeny-tiny print on the side of the jar.

The otc supplements are not strictly regulated as to sourcing and dosage; if you actually need it for an existing condition, get a doctor to prescribe the superior kind.

In general, the best sources are supposed to be a variety of wild-caught fish: mackerel, tuna, anchovy, herring and cod. Salmon is the best known, but it's also the most intensively farmed fish, and there are several issues with fish farming . You can also find vegetarian sources, like walnuts, algae and flax seed.

If you're taking vitamin A supplements, be careful of your dosage.

9 hours ago, DynV said:

I'm guessing when we were ape-like and the bark, branch or liana broke, those that couldn't do it didn't live to propagate the specie.

Yes, pretty much. Also more subtle uses of an ability to calculate what is likely to happen, where and and how fast. E.g. the most agile monkeys pick fruit in the highest branches branches and throw it down to family and friends below. The ones who can best figure the trajectory of an airborne object would catch the most fruit. If a predator is approaching at speed, its eta and point of impact are very handy to anticipate and vacate. If ones troop, while fleeing such a predator, should be near a cliff edge, it's useful to calculate the last viable moment to veer off, and in which direction. The need for such an instinct goes well back into the dinosaur era. 

It's not reflex, but it is instinctive.

When you slip or trip and are about to fall, you have very little time to decide what action to take: try to regain your balance, grab some solid support to stop the fall, or mitigate the damage by using arms or legs to absorb the shock or rolling to lessen the impact. In every situation, one of those actions is more likely to be effective than any of the others. The brain is able to make those very fast calculations through a few million of years of animal experience. 

It's similar with catching an object you drop. One response is appropriate for an egg, another is appropriate for a knife or a pudding or a baby. We're not aware of weighing possible dangers, the importance of saving the falling object and odds of success, but that's exactly what our brains are doing.

10 hours ago, dimreepr said:

My point is, defeatism doesn't have to be a negative approach...

Right. If your cage is comfortable and your food-bowl always filled on time, who needs autonomy?

On 10/10/2023 at 10:47 AM, dimreepr said:

For instance, a prisoner with a death sentence, could be far more free than you; his last meal, perhaps...

Not unless he felt terribly guilty and would have committed suicide if others didn't kill him.

11 hours ago, dimreepr said:

So, why do we fight for a freedom we know we can't have? 

Because, if we really know that we cannot get free, we lie down and stop eating. The tiger pacing back and forth behind his bars still doesn't know that he can never escape: he's still holding on to a vestige of hope. So does a guerilla in occupied territory. Risking death is no big deal compared to accepting eternal captivity. 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Philosophically, where one has peace of mind, I equate that with a proper sense of freedom.

I doubt most animals can have proper peace of mind in a prison. A few probably do, and stop fighting. That makes them suitable zoo exhibits, while the pacing tiger disturbs the visitors' peace of mind.

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The last time, the metaphor was water into wine; imagine that for a recovering alcoholic...

I never even knew he had a problem with drink. Oh, the apocrypha I've missed!

13 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

we all know one has to walk on water for the magic to happen...

It didn't happen last time. "One" would just be killed again... and again.... and again

On 9/28/2023 at 11:22 PM, Trurl said:

My estimate of how many ads we saw a day was around 500. But I think 4+ thousand is probably right. If someone or something is influencing how you surf the web than everything you see is causing a decision reaction in your mind.

Yes: I flip past them as fast as I can, usually without registering what they want me to buy. I know I'll never go on a cruise, which is what the curtain in front of this thread invited me to do; I'll never import a beautiful Russian girl; I'll never know which five fruits to avoid for belly fat. I have, however, stopped consulting some respectable publications, because they have the text sandwiched between two giant ads and it's like reading through a mail-slot - just not worth the discomfort.

So, yes, a lot of ads slide past awareness, but the only way they influence my behaviour is to prompt evasive action - that is, the very opposite of what they hope to accomplish. Maybe someday advertisers will realize this.

I hope the same will someday be true of religious and political propaganda. 

Those shelters may be needed again pretty soon. Some of them, in various parts of the world, are being restored and refurbished.

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

That was interesting.  And a reminder that thick temperature moderating walls can be built with low tech and local earthen materials.  I'd love to see a return to some form of this in areas of the US Southwest.

Adobe or some form of cob construction has been used in many parts of the world for millennia. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/article/why-these-west-african-architects-choose-mud-over-concrete https://regenerativeskills.com/articles-1-2016-5-24-cob-getting-to-know-one-of-constructions-most-ancient-and-versatile-materials/   https://thefifthestate.com.au/innovation/materials/new-meets-old-cob-houses-enter-the-twenty-first-century/ in hot and cold climates, as its insulating properties are equally effective against both extremes. It's a whole lot more cost-effective than drilling rock and allows for more configurations as well as more functional interior spaces.  

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

I'd love to see a return to some form of this in areas of the US Southwest.

It's happening.

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

It may help to know this thread spun off from one about efficient cooling in a hot climate, spec. SoCal.  So the chat was sort of focused on the hot places that are now heading towards uninhabitable for humans.

Well, a big rock would be earthquake proof, so long as it wasn't a seaside cliff, but they are hard to move from inland, so the people would need super fast transport tunnels to get to a city. Unless their work space was in their home. You know there are already plenty of existing and abandoned mines where all the blasting has been done already. I wouldn't want to live in one - especially near the San Andreas Fault, but it's hot and growing hotter by the year in New Mexico, Nevada and Arizona, too, where people might not be very keen on having monumental rock formations destroyed.  

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

The technical/economic challenges and energy costs of heavy lifts to oto 1000 tonnes are trivial. This was demonstrated in the bronze age.

Can you please demonstrate how bronze age technology works in modern elevators?

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

Blizzards in southern California? And at the other extreme we have various reflective coating options to avoid absorptive overheating.

I didn't realize the giant termite structure proposal was restricted to Southern California.  But, of course, we don't actually know what climatic changes Southern California may be facing in the next two or three decades. What is the monetary and ecological cost of these various coating options on the required scale?

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

Who mentioned steel and concrete? That's a strawman of your making.

Sorry. You hadn't mentioned hollowing out rocks. Who needs daylight anyway, right? And who wouldn't appreciate a 4x4' pillar in their bedroom? Are there lots of these big rocks in Southern California that nobody owns or will you bring them over from Africa?

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

Fail to see your point.

That's all right, it wasn't important. Just interesting, I thought, that people a long time ago faced similar problems and came up with solutions that can still be useful today.

1 hour ago, sethoflagos said:

11 hours ago, Peterkin said:

The revived version is less interesting.

And yet you feel inclined to post. At length. How ironic.

I could have gone on longer, but my interest flagged. Judge for yourself.

The idea is fairly old - no finance; just humanpower in a difficult climate. https://online.nmartmuseum.org/nmhistory/art-architecture/ancestral-pueblo-architecture/history-ancestral-pueblo-architecture.html

The revived version is less interesting.

14 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

t would be nice if we could make use of the general principles, but construct them above ground in multi-story medium to high density accommodation units each suitable for populations oto 10,000 individuals. Basically a version of a scaled up termite mound. Let's run with it a while.

You have a couple of problems there. The energy required to lift everything - all the materials in construction and then all the occupants and their supplies. The power source has to be constant, which is very difficult to ensure under present climate conditions, let alone those yet to come. It would also require superlative insulation, with so much surface area exposed to sun and blizzard. And the usual high-rise problems: how to escape if it's hit by a hurricane or earthquake or bomb.

The building materials themselves are a major consideration. Steel and concrete have ugly big ecological bootprints.

14 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

In 'the best of all possible worlds', the community would not have individual cooking stoves, refrigerators, freezers etc, but centralised communal facilities that exhaust their waste heat directly outside of the structure (ie not overheating the living/working spaces).

I quite like this part. I have a notion of repurposing some existing office towers to human habitations, including community food and recreation gardens on every third or so floor. But that leaves the other problems - energy, lifts and insulation - unsolved.

Much safer, and more efficient, though undesirable to claustrophobics, are underground cities.   

On the whole, I would prefer an Earthship house.

Lots more relatives across the sea.

I can't think of more than one reason: He looked it up and sent off the solution, without taking any of it seriously. My guess is he wasn't really engaged, maybe absorbed in something else but didn't want to let you down:  Here's an answer, go away and stop bothering me.

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

or you perhaps, but isn't it a bit smug to assume you know better?

Know what better than who does?

I assume that I know some things better than some people, and that I know some things imperfectly or not at all, while some other people know those other things far better or a little better than I do.

I've never met a god, and don't claim to know them at all, but I've read and heard quite a lot about many of them. I assume some people know more about them than I do and some people know less.