Butch

What constitutes a field?

Quantum physics attempts to describe physics at the smallest level... Ultimately aren't we seeking the point at which there is something from nothing, the edge of existence?

Inevitably, some cultures will clash, often this is polarised by things such as religion, ethics, race... The best we can do is to allow freedom of belief and speech, however we have laws and if your beliefs cause you to cross the line into unlawful acts... You will be imprisoned!

All very interesting! Y'all a incredible! While investigating my proto-particle (which I believe now is a graviton) I realized there was no identifiable limit to shells or number in shells of closely interacting gravitons, so I focused on just a pair... It appears to me that a pair of interacting gravitons is indeed a photon! As such it should provide a basis for some math... More on this when I have more time and math. Thx again everyone!

I have been working on modeling my "proto-particle" some of you are familiar with it... as it turns out my proto-particle is actually a graviton, so I have been doing some reading on that. It is encouraging to see the same problems with math that I have encountered (recently I believe I found a basis for math describing the graviton, more on that later). Can someone explain to me why a graviton must be a spin 2 entity?

No I can't.

I understand, however a gravitational system of perturbations interacting might produce what we perceive as a particle with mass, that is the mass I am seeking. Cause v effect is a very long running question, chicken or the egg? It would seem that a mass could not exist without spin, however can spin exist without mass? Perhaps even this has roots? Could it be that mass and spin are the result of a system in which the two preserve one another? This is off topic however! I am simply looking for the smallest possible mass. This is a matter of opinion obviously, I guess what I am truly looking for is inspiration! I usually find that there is plenty of that here, on this forum! If we ignore time... The problem becomes simpler I believe. We then have a single frame of reference. Tensors can be expressed without time as part of the equation. Of course that is not suitable in all cases, but it is sufficient for my problem, what is the smallest possible "rest" mass? It is my feeling that any entity with more than a single property, has underlying structure.

Hmm, mass is defined as the resistance to a change in momentum. Is mass really any different than a gravitational perturbation?

Understood.

You are correct, and your math is correct. I was a bit loose with terminology... Point is no matter what value of x > 0 you choose, you will get a real number as a result for x to infinity and the result for x to zero will be infinity. X is distance, y is mass density / gravitational influence. (Yes this is my particle that is a gravitational well.) The ratio is (sum of y for x to infinity : sum of y for x to zero) Space, the formula -1/x^2 provides the mass density along a single line. Cubing then would provide overall mass for the space outside of x (Which would be infinite, if the universe is infinite, a real number if it is not) : overall mass of the space inside of x. The end result of this is that such an entity would reduce to a single point with infinite mass density... Imaginary mass. Of course such a particle could only exist as a primordial and would have to belong to a system that preserved it. That system would have a quanta of true mass, hence I am trying to determine what that mass would be, then x becomes a real value I can work with. Thank you for your patience, I know this is out there stuff (please no wisecracks!).

The math! If you pick a point on x say x=1 for example and sum the values of y to x=infinity the total will approach 2. If you sum the values of y to x=0 the total will approach infinity. Regardless the x you start at, the sum of the y values will approach a finite value and infinity. The ratio of mass density indicates that the mass density beyond x=0 approaches 0 This gives you a factor to work with when you consider area and volume, both will produce infinity, however they are different infinities! Imaginary mass!

Yes, the explanation Strange gave cleared it up for me... Can you define smidge in scientific units? Lol

So say we have a photon of 300ghz, it can only have the energy provided via Planck, correct? If so the OK, I get it. BTW did you see my correction from "mass" to "mass density"? It is important if I am to provide the math for Imaginary mass.

OK, now I am confused, if black body radiation is quantized photons(energetically) and the energy = hf, it follows that the spectrum would have to be quantized...

Understood.

Just a note, I stated "a single point with infinite mass" that is incorrect, it should read "a single point with infinite mass density". I assume you are saying that photons can have non quantized frequencies, however at their source the frequencies are quantized by the physics. Is this correct?

Like I said, I do not believe the Higgs is my entity, I mention it only because it demonstrates that at least some of my thoughts are not so far fetched. Such an entity as an infinitely deep gravity well would approach zero in all respects. Plot the curve -1/x^2 Since there is no angular momentum the well falls off infinitely precipitously... I can explain this more succinctly with the math if you wish. The curvature of the well becomes a right angle, it reduces to simply a single point with infinite mass. This quandary is what led me to pursue the smallest possible mass, not that my entity would have such mass, rather a system of these entities would produce a quanta of mass. When I can determine that mass, I can produce a mathematical model. Of course this entity would have to be primordial. I got it just fine! Thx. What I got from Planck however is that photon frequencies are quantitative, is that correct?

It may seem that way, but no... I just assume the reader understands that no well is an island. Very well put, better than my explanation! I still do not accept the Higgs boson as my entity, it is however close... In thinking through my ideas, I clearly understand where the term imaginary mass comes from. A gravity well that was infinitely deep with infinite mass density at a single point would have such imaginary mass. As to spin! I came across this encouraging bit! https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson%23Properties_of_the_Higgs_boson&ved=2ahUKEwjE47mqn77fAhWFTt8KHUMzANMQygQwD3oECAQQAw&usg=AOvVaw3IWVIt89ajqHcTWiogq-g_

True! That is why multiples of such an entity would have to be engaged in a primordial system that produced spin and the most basic particle! (I have found in my candidate that they produce spin, mass, polarity and charge!) I just do not have a handle on what that mass would be!

I understand, I am speaking of a limit to f of a photon... Just doing it badly. Sorry, my fault for creating confusion. I have been reading up on Higgs, I am looking for something less than Higgs. My thinking is that an entity with more than one property (mass and spin for example) must have underlying structure... Granted my "thinkin' may be stinkin'" but for now that is the direction I am going in, I am looking for an entity with only mass, and that mass must be a quantum.

Sorry, I really did not mean that a photon would increase in f, obviously I am a bit foggy... To much thinking! But once again you have all been very helpful! Yes and yes! Careful though! You are treading dangerously close to unifying fields! I have been trying to resolve this in the wrong direction of course, your statements are the right direction. Again, thank you!

This is why I inquired to what is the difference between a gravity well and a mass, of course a mass has a periphery, you can refer back to see my conjecture on this... You have all been very helpful! I am seeing much more clearly now! I have been trying to resolve this backwards! I had hypothesized that a photon(as a gravitational phenomena) at some point would be very much like a gravity well. This would not be at an extremely short wavelength but rather at a very long wavelength! This forum has been so helpful! Without it I fear my head would explode! Merry Christmas!

I guess you must have done the calculation, much appreciated! From what I have read such a thing may not be possible? If a photon were to have sufficiently short wavelength to decay into mass what would happen to its velocity, the mass could not be at rest as c is constant regardless of frame... Am I thinking correctly? Can you clarify my thoughts a bit Strange? You are very good at that!

I guess I need more study time on Planck units. Thx.

I realize that a gravity well is a perturbation of the gravitational field which has influence that extends to infinity, mass on the other hand has a periphery... The model I am working on pertains to an entity that is a gravitational well and combinations of these would produce a perturbation that has a periphery, that perturbation would have a single quanta of mass... Before I can apply math to see if it fits with current science I need to know what that mass is!