Finding the Elephant

Thanks for the start of the thread, but we should get some things straightened out. The literature and testing of Near Death Experiences is quite conclusive now. There is a whole range of great research being done around the world on this subject and it doesn't actually show these experiences are reliant on religious beliefs - atheists get them as well. The research is quite conclusive that the effects are not the result of stress or drugs etc... all the standard explanations. Also, not every religion claims to know how the universe was created. Buddhism for example doesn't go that far. Additionally, evolution and Christianity are not opposites. Even the pope agrees with evolution. Most Christians I know just think of evolution as part of the explanation of 'how' rather than 'why'. Finally, research shows us that humans are not as rational as we might think. Intelligence is no answer. In fact we know now that the more intelligent we are the more prone we are to bias, and not seeing our blind spots. Daniel Kahneman won a Nobel prize for this research by the way. This is to say that, people will chose their belief and find the facts that support it. It is what we ALL do, even atheists, despite their claims that they are for some reason immune to such bias while the rest of the planet isn't. Cause, one could argue that they are so unintelligent that they are not fooled by their own biases, I guess. But I can't see this happening too much. Prove you wrong? Well I already have a day job. But the answers are out there for you to find. Kind regards FTE

nothing, by definition, is nothing. Perhaps it is nothing that is impossible.

Does this mean we evolved from mice or that mice evolved from us?

Perhaps we have a choice about whether or not we survive in spirit after death. Until we can explain our awareness of the present moment - what many physicists say defies explanation, the continuation of our awareness in time is always a possibility. What if you had a choice, what would you chose, oblivion or .... the next experience? Many teachers or 'prophets' have come along to tell us that there is a possibility of extended existence. We give them time because at a gut level, we all kind of know there is something afoot. Our intelligence gives us an ability to sense things/phenomena/hypercomplex patterns before we understand them fully, like a great bit of music. And we all know by now that our inability to understand says nothing about whether or not it exists. Existence doesn't need our permission to exist and doesn't have to comply with our current understanding of what is 'rational', though when you consider the Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment results, perhaps matter does.

I have studied both and enjoy them. Both enrich my thinking, and both are valuable. Just different sides of the same coin really. I would avoid the temptation of taking sides.

You might want to have a look at this: We have found a way of doing the impossible: http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/news/news/1000633/

You know, it really doesn't matter if Jesus is a real person or not. The value is in the message. I can value the message even if I find Jesus did not actually exist. Though, of all the things I would do if I could have a few opportunities to travel in time, going and having a look a the person who was Jesus is certainly on top of my list. I wonder what or who I would find.

I have to say, as having been both a theist and an atheist in the past, today I find myself being more religious around smug intolerant atheists and more of an atheist around fanatical intolerant theists. There must be some sane ground between Richard Dawkins and Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the leader of ISIL, surely. Or is it just these extremists who get all the press?