Willie71

Capayan, part of what leaves me skeptic all of the anti Muslim propaganda, beyond the face value absurdity, is the fact that your government ignores the human rights violations and sponsoring of terrorism engaged by your ally, Saudi Arabia.

Shooting up a black church to start a race war, or shooting up a planned parenthood clinic are acts of Christian terrorism. This last planned parenthood shooter might not be a Christian terrorist, but many before him were. Controlling the border =/= deporting millions of people, revoking 14th amendment citizenship, refusing natural citizens from returning abroad because of a religious test. Propose non hyperbolic policies that might actually work, and let's have a discussion. To date there have been ZERO terrorists from Syria. One unconfirmed in Paris. Approximately two million refugees so far. It's statistically insignificant. Way more people die crossing the street or cleaning their gun. The refugees are running from Isis. Isis could much easier get naturalized citizens from European countries to fly legally to the US, rather than wait the 2+ years it currently takes. Nonsense fear mongering. Tar, side note on Cuba. I have vacationed there several times. Some of the friendliest people I have met. While the monthly wage might be low by our standards, you have to take into account the realities of communism. The basic standards of living are covered by the state. There is a basic home, food, work clothing, and medical coverage that do not come out of your pocket. Utilities are $4.00/month. I pay $350.00 monthly for utilities. The people are poor, have little extra, but no one goes without a home, basic needs, and education is free. Cuba's largest economic contributor is professional consultation worldwide. Anyone has the opportunity to be a doctor. I never had that chance because of where I was born.

Tar, your tax scheme, the flat tax has been shown to result in the accumulation of wealth at the top of the pyramid. Your opinion may be different, but that is what the facts tell us. The countries with the most robust economies tend to have a marginal tax rate higher than 70%, even at 90%. Look at the most robust times in American history. 90% was the marginal tax rate. Why would you not want to return to this proven formula? The highest earners simply don't contribute their fair share to the economy, a separate issue from taxes. Trump claims he has 8 billion dollars personal wealth. He holds that money in his assets, not spending it on groceries, recreation, or a night out. People who earn less than $150k tend to spend a greater portion of their income back into the economy, rather than hoard it in offshore investments outside the local economy. Now, if it made more sense to hire a few additional amp loges, rather than pay that money in taxes as a business owner, the economy gets stimulated by employed people, who now have extra money to spend. Please do some investigating on economic history. These facts have been around for a long time, and they stand up to scrutiny. Communism means no personal ownership of property, and everyone shares in everything. What happened in the USSR wasn't true communism, but fascism. Yes there is left wing and right wing fascism. In true communism, the leader of the country and a janitor would have the same standard of living. What politician is even close to advocating for such things? You completely miss the power dynamics. There are an estimated 2 million people in the US who believe there should be a Christian theocracy. There are 100 million + republicans, and almost 40% of the like Trump's stance on Muslims. If you cannot see how this is different than a handful of radicalized Islamists committing acts of terror, we can't help you. The right wing Christian terrorists outnumber Islamists in the US. Both are really a minimal threat, but it's not just some spray paint we are talking about here. People are being assaulted. Constitutional rights are being violated, and Trump/Cruz/Carson are proposing religious tests. That is state level fascism/terrorism.

Tar, it's not an opinion that the right wing is flirting with fascism. It's not hyperbolic rhetoric. It's based on historical examples of the exact processes both Germany and Italy have gone down, which are well documented. Fascism isn't just about xenophobia. It has the tying together of the big business interests with the government, minimizing or eliminating the people's power, and dismantling of the free press. Bernie has received 10 minutes of coverage from the three big networks this year, where trump has a couple hundred. Hillaries coverage far outweighs bernies as well. Reporters are being threatened to lose access to Hillary if they report on Bernie. On the other hand, claiming Hillary or Bernie are communists is being hyperbolic, as neither is very far left of center. It's arguable that Hillary is center, or center right. I don't think anyone could reasonably argue that policies endorsed by Hillary or Bernie get anywhere near communism, or even pure socialism. Elements of socialism similar to Canada and much of Europe, yes, but USSR/China? There is no "both sides are equally skewed" here. Please do some investigations on the steps toward fascism. It's a pretty simple, fear based process. You will likely be shocked with the similarities between the current US political climate on the right, and what happened in Italy and Germany. Those of us familiar with this process are quite alarmed by this.

Tar, the Republican Party has mover significantly to the right over the past 30+ years. They are flirting with fascism quite dangerously now. Most republicans who are not politically informed have no idea what their party stands for. Criticizing the party stances isn't the same as criticizing its members, unless those members endorse those policy positions. Then those individuals are deserving of the criticism. You know, with your examples above regarding the good people. I worked with murderers and rapists who did a lot of good things too. One act does not define a person, but good deeds don't erase bad deeds either.

Due process is important. The patriot act is absurd, and should be struck down. Not letting people fly is ok, as long as they have the freedom to buy a gun? While you might not think Muslims should be banned, the politicians supporting the unrestricted purchase of guns believe Muslims should be banned. And people support them by voting for them.

Ahh, the "freedom" defence. It's absurd. You can't use lead paint or gas. You have speed limits. You have labour and marriage laws. Grow up! What a pathetic, childish response. Due process? Then follow the process, make a decision, and either give them a gun or don't. Don't give them a gun while being investigated. How does one reconcile banning Muslims, without due process, and giving suspicious people guns? Maybe people should prove their capable of being responsible with a gun (well regulated.)

Fear is a powerful motivator. This us why they won't block gun sales to people on terrorist watch lists. Every shooting, or terror event gets people out buying guns to "protect themselves." The whole Kenyan Muslim gun grabber meme didn't hurt either.

The u.s. Has the highest incarceration rate in the developed world. You have been going after "criminals" for decades, and yet you still have the obscenely high gun death rate that you do. Something doesn't add up. Are Americans homicidal barbarians? It sure sounds like it when talking to gun advocates. Why do you believe all these people want to break into your home and kill you? It's a bizarre belief, no? I'm in my mid 40's, have worked with criminals for a couple decades and have never felt the need to "protect myself."

Who are the good guys again, Tar? https://youtu.be/SGtegY0S3yo

There is a difference between being an anti American propagandist, and recognizing historical facts, which include numerous war crimes and acts of terror by western forces. I've worked with plenty of soldiers with PTSD from what they were ordered to do to be able to believe we deserve some sort of moral high ground. I may have worded my religious questions harshly, but an appeal to majority is a very weak argument, especially with the hypocrisy of that particular majority.

Use any name you like for what you think I am. You have religious beliefs that contradict what I believe is ethical, yet you feel your religion is right. How can you not see that others who believe things you do not believe they are right also? At one point in time, most people believed the world was flat. Doesn't mean they were right, or that those who questioned this were wrong. Once you read numerous religious texts from multiple cultures, it becomes quite apparent that they all share many traits, such as being limited to the knowledge of the times. There are hero traits that are similar to each other, and some stories are outright plagiarized. It's hard to take any of them seriously. Tar, do you really believe the flood story, Jonah and the whale, or that there were dragons and Giants? Do you really believe the world was created in 6 days? Most people engage serious apologetics when confronted by these "truths." Do you believe homosexuals should be put to death, or that wearing mixed fibres is an abomination? What about touching your wife when she is menstruating? Oh, that's the Old Testament, right? What did Jesus say about that? It's inconvenient. You do realize the Jesus story is plagiarized from at least 10 pagan myths, don't you? Christmas is a conglomeration of pagan winter solstice traditions, having nothing to do with the bible? For those who look at both sides of a debate, you sound like a pro USA propagandist. You can't seriously believe the US doesn't have innocent blood on its hands?

I honestly have no idea what you are getting at here.

Somewhere between 2 and 4 million Muslims have been killed by western forces over the past 30 years. Isis might have passed 100,000, but it's hard to find accurate numbers. The US budgeted 30 billion for bombs for drone strikes. How many people will that kill? Isis' total resources are under 10 million.

You continue to miss the main point. I do not think that Isis is right, or that Islam, Christianity, or Judaism is right. Simply telling an idealogue that they are wrong will accomplish what exactly? Nobody told them they were wrong before? How about killing than? That teaches the rest they need to amend their ways? No, it tells hem they are under attack, and that they are persecuted. This fuels the zealotry. To defeat fundamentalism, you must be able to understand why and how they believe what they do. To understand how they think they are moral and defending themselves against what the west stands for is the only way to mount an intelligent strategy to enlighten those who want to return to a preindustrial "utopia." The only thing that undoes fundamentalism is education. Every year of additional education a person receives results in a 4% decrease in fundamentalism. The most conservative remain unaffected by education though, with no known solution to date. As previously posted, taking in Refugees is a PR nightmare for Isis. It doesn't fit the narrative of the "evil west." It makes it harder for Isis to sell its brand to new recruits.

Poor is when people earn less than the cost of living. It's pretty simple. If you work 40h, and can't afford rent, groceries, and utilities, you are poor.

I didn't say that I think they are moral, but that they think they are moral. The fact that I don't subscribe to centuries old fairy tales and myths only strengthens their perception of us/them. This response shows why you can't win the war on terror. Unless you understand what motivates the terrorist group, you do the wrong things to try to stop them. One read of these Abrahamic religious texts shows multiple examples of genocide, xenophobia, and bigotry. Thankfully there are more moderates that haven't even read the texts than there are fundamentalists. You have to understand this to understand the motivations of ideologically driven conservatives. The USA has killed more Muslims than Isis btw. By a long shot. Like I said, it doesn't have to make sense to others, just to the people who subscribe to the ideology. Remember Kim Davis? To conservatives, she was the victim even though she was in the position of power violating others' rights. There are thousands of examples of this twisted ideology that motivates these fundamentalists. They believe they are moral. If I'm wrong, you think Isis or Davis believe their actions are immoral? Why do it then?

Those are religious laws. It's moral to follow them if you have a fundamentalist view of religion. It also allows the feeling of persecution from secular influences looking to destroy their way of life. It doesn't have to make sense to us, it only has to make sense to those who hold those views. If you want to take away their way of life, they are the victim again.

In the medical/psychological/psychiatric profession we have a mandate to do no harm. Foreign policy should be the same way. When dangerous people come to our attention, we seek to provide treatment, and usually that requires removing the stimulus or situation that is contributing to the problem. We understand that everyone believes they are on the noble side, just defending themselves from the other unreasonable people. Let me repeat that, it is vitally important: everyone believes they are the noble one defending themselves against the other unreasonable people. Once you understand this, the world is much less confusing. It also makes it more nuanced as there aren't any more good guys and bad guys. Everyone believes that are wearing the white cowboy hat, so to speak. For people who are impervious to treatment, there is an escalation of restriction of privileges, not for punishment, but for safety. How can Isis see themselves as the good guys? They have had their friends, families, homes, schools, hospitals, markets, and p,aces of worship blown to pieces by oppressive foreign powers. They think they are just defending themselves against an unreasonable enemy that wants to eradicate them, largely due to their religion. They aren't wrong, they just focus on their own victim hood. We focus on ours, but it pales in comparison to what we have done to them.

Do the "prior convictions" control for the thousands of bogus arrests and convictions? https://m.youtube.com/watch?list=PLTpcK80irdQhN7zAGc83RJzhP5DHi2FKg&v=dTAAZlYMmuU#action=share There is a very sick culture of demonizing minorities, planting evidence, and false convictions. All stats on previous convictions are suspect as the investigations show the horrific injustice present in the states.

You have terrorists in California. Why not bomb them?

Well, with the apparent terrorist attack in Californa, it's time to bomb Cali. So what if we kill some civillians while we are at it? We should bomb Paris too. Quite a few home grown terrorists there from what I have seen. First Charlie Hebdo, then the recent attack. We need to take them out before they radicalize anyone else.

You can be labelled a criminal for being caught with pot, or cheating on your taxes. Not a useful distinction. The person most likely to kill you is your spouse. A history of domestic violence, infidelity, and substance abuse, when combined with a gun in the house is your number one culprit for gun violence. It's not a stranger breaking into your house. Please clarify what you are talking about regarding suicide. Minimizing the 19000 deaths per year isn't a priority in your world?

It was clearly cowardice. It was also misinformed, jingoistic, nationalistic, xenophobic, and theocratic. In other words, there was no hint of reality, and the tyrants pushing for war, ie. Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld et.al capitalized on fear and panic. You must realize that the death toll from 9-11 was about the same as the monthly death toll in Iraq for years? You wonder why they hate you? It's not hard to Understand why, unless one tries to maintain willful ignorance. How about stopping being allies with Saudi Arabia and Israel, two major human rights violators. Saudi Arabia is one of the hubs of radical Islamic ideation, yet we pretend they are the good guys. Stop klling civillians en masse, Stop proving that we hate them, over and over, whether it's refugees, civillian "collateral damage" or supporting tyrants for cheap oil. Stop arming both sides. Stop electing leaders with delusions of an impending apcalypse, or leaders in the pockets of the military industrial complex. Now that the maintenance of the problem is stopped, maybe so,utions could be found. Remember the Marshal Plan? That was more important foe peace than the bombing. Revisionist history ignores that part.

This is the way I was taught the meaning of this passage. Sets up the us/vs them dichotomy so important to religions that require persecution to be meaningful.