[jimmydasaint]

Does giving to charity or helping old people across the road release 'feel good' chemicals in the brain? I assume that doing good deeds releases endorphins or other similar chemicals in the brain, and, as a result, make people feel good about themselves and their philanthropic actions. However, do all people feel similarly and how would the brain of someone who has a psycopathic personality work if they do a good deed?

[Dekan]

jimmydasaint, on 24 January 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

Does giving to charity or helping old people across the road release 'feel good' chemicals in the brain? I assume that doing good deeds releases endorphins or other similar chemicals in the brain, and, as a result, make people feel good about themselves and their philanthropic actions. However, do all people feel similarly and how would the brain of someone who has a psycopathic personality work if they do a good deed?

You're suggesting a very simple explanation of why people do good deeds - the good deeds release chemicals in the brain. These chemicals reward the brain's owner. So the owner will feel gratified. And will want to do another good deed, in order to enjoy more gratification.

This sounds like old Skinner and behaviourism. Lab rats and pigeons in experimental cages. If they press, or peck, the right button, they get rewarded by a food pellet. That reward, reinforces their behaviour to press the button again.

Perhaps there's some truth in that. But human behaviour is not so simple.

For example - Suppose I saw an old lady standing at the side of the road. Looking like she was waiting for assistance to cross the road. I would pretend I hadn't seen her, and walk quickly past. So I imagine, would most people.

Why? You tell me!

[Athena]

I love your question and scientifically the answer is yes, doing good for others results is us feeling good. Doing good for others is one of the top recommendations for getting out of a depression. I am sure if you google the subject you can find plenty of scientific evidence, because I have read a lot about it. This is kind of stuff that comes up in women's magazines.

I would say this is the way God works. Not only are we programmed for such intrinsic reward, but we can observe the social benefits of helping each other as well, and know we are investing in a social organization we will reap the rewards in the future. Logical cause and effect thinking, tells us being nice to others will benefit us and our children and our children's children, as long as negative influences do not destroy our positive efforts.

However, as Jimmydasaint said, this is complex and we don't all respond to stimuli the same, nor do we all reason the same. But in general I think it is safe to say, morale, is that high spirited feeling that comes out of believing we are doing the right thing, and when we are acting on virtues we feel strong, as though a greater power were behind us, and when we do we do something we know is wrong, the feeling isn't so good. Except if a person is psychopathic and then the brain map is different and the same rules do not apply. This isn't just about chemicals but also the brain's map, and our brain maps are individually different.

[Essay]

jimmydasaint, on 24 January 2012 - 01:41 PM, said:

However, do all people feel similarly and how would the brain of someone who has a psycopathic personality work if they do a good deed?

Quote

"Love Chemistry... Oxytocin, the Hormone of Love...."
http://www.hugthemon...zak_oxytoc.html
[PAUL ZAK: OXYTOCIN, TRUST AND GREED]
...as well as: « "Phase 2 Trial of Oxytocin for Autism" & "Insight into the Basis of Insight" » ...hugthemonkey

I saw Paul Zak a few years back, http://oxytocincentr...m/tag/paul-zak/ [The Neurobiology of Trust]
...talking about oxytocin. IIRC, he said about 1% of the population have chronically high levels of oxytocin AND their brains are basically immune to its usual effect of trust and empathy. He called these people, "the bastards," in the talk I saw on the Research Channel (not a TED talk... of which there are many links online). Google: Paul Zak oxytocin TED.

Interesting that the bastards comprise about 1% of the population.
I wonder if it is THE One Percent?
But seriously, I'd bet they are fairly evenly distributed.

~

[Tres Juicy]

Doing anything affects the brain....

Eating baked beans affects the brain

[jimmydasaint]

Dekan, on 24 January 2012 - 08:50 PM, said:

You're suggesting a very simple explanation of why people do good deeds - the good deeds release chemicals in the brain. These chemicals reward the brain's owner. So the owner will feel gratified. And will want to do another good deed, in order to enjoy more gratification.

This sounds like old Skinner and behaviourism. Lab rats and pigeons in experimental cages. If they press, or peck, the right button, they get rewarded by a food pellet. That reward, reinforces their behaviour to press the button again.

Perhaps there's some truth in that. But human behaviour is not so simple.

Why? You tell me!

You are right. Human behaviour is complicated and I would be certain that more hormones are involved and more complex biochemical process. However, I think that it is not simply an innate characteristic controlled by genes. Think of a family that is inspired by the change people can effect by kind or charitable behaviour. They are determined to pass on their habits to their children. The children would presumably reflect the values of their parents and then derive a sense of satisfaction from their 'good deeds'. I take it that nurture plays a substantial part in developing philanthropic actions in this case. What is harder for me is the case of apparent philanthropic behaviour by animals because I would assume that these genes would be strongly selected against (due to sheer number of deaths). Yet this seems to be the case.

Athena, on 25 January 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

I would say this is the way God works. Not only are we programmed for such intrinsic reward, but we can observe the social benefits of helping each other as well, and know we are investing in a social organization we will reap the rewards in the future. Logical cause and effect thinking, tells us being nice to others will benefit us and our children and our children's children, as long as negative influences do not destroy our positive efforts.

However, as Jimmydasaint said, this is complex and we don't all respond to stimuli the same, nor do we all reason the same. But in general I think it is safe to say, morale, is that high spirited feeling that comes out of believing we are doing the right thing, and when we are acting on virtues we feel strong, as though a greater power were behind us, and when we do we do something we know is wrong, the feeling isn't so good. Except if a person is psychopathic and then the brain map is different and the same rules do not apply. This isn't just about chemicals but also the brain's map, and our brain maps are individually different.

I would agree with you in principle Athena. I think that we are pre-programmed for a number of behavious by God. For example, babies seem to realise the caiuse and effect relationships that govern a ball being pushed by a hand on a computer/TV screen but show puzzlement when a ball rolls by itself. However, remember that most scientists would favour selection and genetic drift arguments and would there are genetic predispositions which cause hormonal, change and affect the final behaviour. In this latter case, nature and nurture would be both relevant.

Essay, on 26 January 2012 - 07:19 AM, said:

I saw Paul Zak a few years back, http://oxytocincentr...m/tag/paul-zak/ [The Neurobiology of Trust]
...talking about oxytocin. IIRC, he said about 1% of the population have chronically high levels of oxytocin AND their brains are basically immune to its usual effect of trust and empathy. He called these people, "the bastards," in the talk I saw on the Research Channel (not a TED talk... of which there are many links online). Google: Paul Zak oxytocin TED.

Interesting that the bastards comprise about 1% of the population.
I wonder if it is THE One Percent?
But seriously, I'd bet they are fairly evenly distributed.

~

AFAIK, the oxytocin receptors theory has an animal model, but I have not heard about a human model, bearing in mind the sheer variety of genetic predispositions and final emergent behaviour. Therefore, I love the 'bastard' theory but would like to read more about it.