[Moontanman]

I am curious about the properties of neon in it's liquid state. More precisely does it dissolve other elements and chemicals? Specifically I was wondering about liquid neon at about 10 bar and would it dissolve water? I know what water is an ice at liquid neon temps even at 10 bar but many solids dissolve in liquids, would neon dissolve water ice and if it would how easy would this happen, also would the pressure significantly influence it's ability to dissolve other chemicals? Or is neon unlikely to dissolve anything due to being a noble element?

[doG]

Moontanman, on 22 November 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

I am curious about the properties of neon in it's liquid state. More precisely does it dissolve other elements and chemicals? Specifically I was wondering about liquid neon at about 10 bar and would it dissolve water? I know what water is an ice at liquid neon temps even at 10 bar but many solids dissolve in liquids, would neon dissolve water ice and if it would how easy would this happen, also would the pressure significantly influence it's ability to dissolve other chemicals? Or is neon unlikely to dissolve anything due to being a noble element?

Since it is an inert, ie non-reactive, element I would guess that it wouldn't dissolve anything. Further, since it melting point is -410.94°F it would not melt water ice either.

[Xittenn]

doG, on 22 November 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Since it is an inert, ie non-reactive, element I would guess that it wouldn't dissolve anything. Further, since it melting point is -410.94°F it would not melt water ice either.

I don't believe solvation is entirely dependent on ionization, as entropy doesn't depend on ionization to accomplish itself. I can't predict this given my limited skill-set and would have to resort to experiment, or third party sources.

+1 like the question

[Moontanman]

doG, on 22 November 2011 - 11:36 PM, said:

Since it is an inert, ie non-reactive, element I would guess that it wouldn't dissolve anything. Further, since it melting point is -410.94°F it would not melt water ice either.

I think the second part of your argument is invalid, first of all I did not say "melt water ice" secondly water, especially super critical water, but really any water, will dissolve silica, and the "melting point of silica is far higher than the temps of liquid water but still it dissolves...

[doG]

Moontanman, on 23 November 2011 - 03:16 AM, said:

I think the second part of your argument is invalid, first of all I did not say "melt water ice" secondly water, especially super critical water, but really any water, will dissolve silica, and the "melting point of silica is far higher than the temps of liquid water but still it dissolves...

I know you didn't say "melt water ice". I pointed out that I didn't think it would dissolve water ice because it is an inert element. To my knowledge it doesn't even form a compound with any of the other elements because it is so non-reactive. I simply added that I additionally think that it wouldn't melt water ice either because of the temperature of liquid neon. OTOH, If water were a gas at liquid neon temperatures then I could see how you might be able to dissolve it into liquid neon the same way that carbon dioxide gas is dissolved into water at liquid water temperatures.

[Moontanman]

doG, on 23 November 2011 - 03:37 AM, said:

I know you didn't say "melt water ice". I pointed out that I didn't think it would dissolve water ice because it is an inert element. To my knowledge it doesn't even form a compound with any of the other elements because it is so non-reactive. I simply added that I additionally think that it wouldn't melt water ice either because of the temperature of liquid neon. OTOH, If water were a gas at liquid neon temperatures then I could see how you might be able to dissolve it into liquid neon the same way that carbon dioxide gas is dissolved into water at liquid water temperatures.

Again, somehow, we are not connecting, water will dissolve silica, quartz, silicon dioxide, this material's melting point is far higher than water's melting point , even higher by a considerable margin, than the temperature difference between ice and liquid neon. You may have a point about the chemical inertness of neon but I don't see how the the temperature difference in the liquid neon and liquid water is relevant.

[doG]

Moontanman, on 23 November 2011 - 03:44 AM, said:

Again, somehow, we are not connecting, water will dissolve silica, quartz, silicon dioxide, this material's melting point is far higher than water's melting point , even higher by a considerable margin, than the temperature difference between ice and liquid neon. You may have a point about the chemical inertness of neon but I don't see how the the temperature difference in the liquid neon and liquid water is relevant.

Separate issues. I didn't suggest that the temperature had anything to do with the inertness or reactiveness of neon with water or its ability, or lack thereof, to dissolve anything. Neon is a non-reactive element and I suspect it would not dissolve water ice at any temperature because of it's non-reactiveness.

Water on the other hand is highly reactive with some elements and because of that it will dissolve some elements and compounds. For some of these solutions temperature does play a part. Compare the dissolution of sugar into iced tea versus hot tea for example.

I simply mentioned that the temperature of liquid neon would additionally prevent it from melting water ice, a separate process than dissolution that is temperature dependent. I had no intent for that additional observation to be applied or interpreted to have any bearing on the dissolution of water into neon.

[Moontanman]

doG, on 23 November 2011 - 04:00 AM, said:

Separate issues. I didn't suggest that the temperature had anything to do with the inertness or reactiveness of neon with water or its ability, or lack thereof, to dissolve anything. Neon is a non-reactive element and I suspect it would not dissolve water ice at any temperature because of it's non-reactiveness.

Water on the other hand is highly reactive with some elements and because of that it will dissolve some elements and compounds. For some of these solutions temperature does play a part. Compare the dissolution of sugar into iced tea versus hot tea for example.

I simply mentioned that the temperature of liquid neon would additionally prevent it from melting water ice, a separate process than dissolution that is temperature dependent. I had no intent for that additional observation to be applied or interpreted to have any bearing on the dissolution of water into neon.

My mistake then, i apologize for the miscommunication. I saw someplace the idea of liquid neon being a solvent for extreme life. I've been going through books like crazy to find it again, I thought it was in "Rare Earth" but evidently not.

This post has been edited by Moontanman: 23 November 2011 - 04:15 AM

[Suxamethonium]

Is it the reactivness of water that allows it to solvate substances? I feel that I disagree to that. "Reactiveness" implies that the water exchanges electrons with the solute which I feel is not the case in a typical dissolution. Likewise, alkanes are fairly unreactive in comparison (mostly only react via radical mechanisms) yet they have good solvent properties for many organic substances.

Whilst I agree that neon is probably not the solvent of choice, I don't feel that the explaination proposed quite fits. Although it definately addresses why neon would be a poor polar solvent.

As for explaining solubilty, I would have thought it was related to co-ordination complexes and how solvent molecules can form "cages" around the solute.

[ewmon]

Moontanman, on 23 November 2011 - 04:05 AM, said:

I saw someplace the idea of liquid neon being a solvent for extreme life.

By definition, extreme life may not require water as a solvent or water at all, so it leads me to whether liquid neon could dissolve extreme life.

On liquid neon and extremophiles, an Indian stratospheric probe used liquid neon to cool cryotubes to allow collecting huge volumes of air, and discovered three new species of bacteria*, one at about 18 miles altitude and two at about 25 miles. These extremophiles are resistant to ultraviolet radiation, and apparently, are not found "on earth" in the technical sense.