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Genetic and Cellular memory


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#1 altdemention

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 03:39 AM

Hi All
Newbie here!
I would like very much to hear theory and fact Regarding Possible Genetic and/or Cellular memory. This to include passing from generation to generation in human and animal. Could this be possibly why some people believe they have lived in past lives, birds know where to migrate, and the Galapagos animals show no fear of man........Just a few questions I would really like some of your facts, thoughts and theories?
Thanks
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#2 Helix

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Posted 30 January 2006 - 04:03 AM

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "cellular memory." If you mean the experiences a cell has are passed down from generation to generation, that's highly unlikely. The example you cited occur for different reasons than "Cellular Memory." Wild animals tend not to be afraid of humans because we are new and aren't known to be a threat. It is thought birds have an internal compass to orient themselves and past lives...pretty much made up.

There was a scientist in the earlier part of the century who advocated a similar theory; Jean Baptiste de Lamarck. He believed a person's experiences and skills were passed down through family trees, that's why, he asserted, giraffes have long necks. Communists used his ideas as one of their central scientific dogmas because it fit nicely into their political ideals.

But this theory of "cellular memory" doesn't make much sense. Where is the memory kept? DNA? Special Organelles? How are they passed down if not through germ line DNA? Interesting theory but there are quite a few holes.
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Man is what he believes
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#3 altdemention

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Posted 4 February 2006 - 12:43 AM

I really wanted some input on this subject as I read that each cell contains millions of small bits of ......lack of a better word...Data....that we know nothing about...similar to what science calls junk DNA..........I don't believe we have any junk DNA.....and somewhere in the future they will find out what it really is........but for now I guess I have to put this on the shelf with all my other musings :rolleyes: I will check back from time to time in hopes someone will discuss more than dismiss:-p
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#4 altdemention

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 12:48 AM

I really thought this was where I could find some input????
I read a study where 4 generations of rats were bred and the first put thru a maze that led to feeding stations...each generation was tested on its memory of the maze each generation to the 4th knew the exact location of the feeding stations running the maze without ever seeing it previously.....HOW did they know????
Lynn :confused:
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#5 Airmid

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 08:04 AM

You might want to check out the ideas of Rupert Sheldrake, a biologist who used the rats example and others to formulate a controversial theory.

Airmid.
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#6 Nashyboyo

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Posted 10 February 2006 - 01:08 PM

I know nothing about memory of events being passed on through the generations. Interesting topic though. DNA is suprising us every day. I'm willing to keep an open mind to the possibility.
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#7 AtheistLena

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 02:19 AM

If the theory "cellular memory" does not fallow the scientific method we all fallowed in school, I don't believe it.
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#8 Edtharan

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 05:25 AM

Actually there is Epigenetics. Substances encountered by a parent (or even grandparent) can switch genes on an off and these can be passed down the genetic line. They can't "add" information, but can turn genes that already exist on or off.
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This sentance you are now reading is false...

#9 SamCogar

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Posted 22 January 2008 - 02:07 PM

Hi All
Newbie here!
I would like very much to hear theory and fact Regarding Possible Genetic and/or Cellular memory. This to include passing from generation to generation in human and animal. Could this be possibly why some people believe they have lived in past lives, birds know where to migrate, and the Galapagos animals show no fear of man........Just a few questions I would really like some of your facts, thoughts and theories?
Thanks


Hi altdemention, I stumbled upon this forum and your question and decided to "join" and offer my thoughts to answer your questions.

Now I've never heard it referred to as Cellular memory in that all memory is "cellular" by definition.

Calling "inherited memory". ..... Genetic memory, .... is ok by me but I prefer calling it "instinctual memory" ….. because all humans and animals inherit certain traits (instincts) from their parent(s).

I also refer to said as “pre-programmed memory”, ….. akin to the Loader ROM “Bios” in your PC. (Your PC “is born” with said Bios memory which permits the Revolving memory (hard drive) to be down-loaded with all sorts of programs and data.)

alterdem, all humans are born with specific instincts, such as: to nurse when hungry, to cry when they don’t get fed or when they feel pain, to show fear when their parent shows fear, etc. These are all “survival instincts” to get them “started” in life as soon as they are born. After that, it is “one day at a time” that their subconscious and conscious memory develops via the stimuli and/or experiences they encounter in their environment. The sounds, sights, smells and feelings they experience, …… they are nurtured.

Thus, …… “You are what you are nurtured to be”.

Now altde, to acknowledge your specific questions:

“NO”, people believe they have lived in past lives – because their subconscious memory is “playing tricks” on their conscious memory. Like those who claim to have an “out-of-body experience”. GEEEZE, I have one of those “thingys” every time I wake up remembering what I was dreaming about.

“Yes”, birds know where to migrate – they learn from their elders and they have a “built in” compass. Sunlight, temperature, food and/or urge to reproduce triggers the migration.

“True”, the Galapagos animals show no fear of man – and humans show no fear ….. until they learn to fear something. Remember altde, the third word a baby is taught after “ma” or ”pa” is …. “NO, NO, NO”.

Those are some of my thoughts on the subject, …. hope they were worthwhile.

Cheers, Sam
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#10 lucaspa

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 05:34 PM

alterdem, all humans are born with specific instincts, such as: to nurse when hungry, to cry when they don’t get fed or when they feel pain, to show fear when their parent shows fear, etc.


I don't think most of these are instincts; they are instead learned behaviors. The act of suckling appears to be instinctual: place a nipple in a newborn's mouth and it will suckle. However, to do so when hungry is a learned behavior. Showing fear when parents do is also a learned behavior. This is done during development as babies copy adult behavior.

“NO”, people believe they have lived in past lives – because their subconscious memory is “playing tricks” on their conscious memory. Like those who claim to have an “out-of-body experience”. GEEEZE, I have one of those “thingys” every time I wake up remembering what I was dreaming about.


"out-of-body" experiences in near death experiences seem to be something different. Pim van Lommel, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, Ingrid Elfferich Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a
prospective study in the Netherlands THE LANCET • Vol 358 • December 15, 2001, 2039

“Yes”, birds know where to migrate – they learn from their elders and they have a “built in” compass. Sunlight, temperature, food and/or urge to reproduce triggers the migration.


Migration in birds seems to be an "instinct" and hardwired into the genes.
http://biomed.brown....l.Behavior.HTML
http://www.bioone.or...41/B570211&ct=1
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#11 jeremyhfht

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Posted 28 January 2008 - 06:43 PM

I really wanted some input on this subject as I read that each cell contains millions of small bits of ......lack of a better word...Data....that we know nothing about...similar to what science calls junk DNA..........I don't believe we have any junk DNA.....and somewhere in the future they will find out what it really is........but for now I guess I have to put this on the shelf with all my other musings :rolleyes: I will check back from time to time in hopes someone will discuss more than dismiss:-p


Perhaps if you did a bit of research into what junk DNA really is, you'd discover that it's inactive DNA (such as retroviruses that are long "dead"). Much like how human genes can be "on" or "off", only these strands of DNA are no longer complete. They've been evolved out of our system. Thus, they're "junk" and always "off" because they're no longer used.

Then again, since you used the word "believe" I doubt there's any discussing something as trivial as facts. :P
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#12 Transdecimal

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:12 AM

Maybe Lamarck was on to something...
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#13 SamCogar

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Posted 29 January 2008 - 12:23 AM

I don't think most of these are instincts; they are instead learned behaviors. The act of suckling appears to be instinctual: place a nipple in a newborn's mouth and it will suckle. However, to do so when hungry is a learned behavior. Showing fear when parents do is also a learned behavior. This is done during development as babies copy adult behavior.


Is not hunger a survival strategy? And newborns of most suckling animals have to know to do it when they are born, even know where to find the tit. Not humans of course, they are born too premature.

And showing fear when parents do …. a learned behavior? How does the baby know it is fear, anger, whatever the parent is expressing? But I’ll give you that one and then say “the instinct” is to “check” parental reaction when they are subjected to an external stimuli, say loud noise or parental voice like when a parent gets into a “shouting match”.

"out-of-body" experiences in near death experiences seem to be something different. Pim van Lommel, Ruud van Wees, Vincent Meyers, Ingrid Elfferich Near-death experience in survivors of cardiac arrest: a
prospective study in the Netherlands THE LANCET • Vol 358 • December 15, 2001, 2039


What could possibly be different about it ……. other than one is not in a “natural” sleep state when the “dream” occurs. When one wakes up during “natural” sleep during a REM phase of “dreaming” (my conjecture in that I have never read about the correlation) …… they will remember what they were dreaming about …….. but, in that they knew for absolutely sure that they were “just dreaming” they do not associate it with something “supernatural”. Their conscious mind tells them it was “normal”.

Lucas, the next time you wake up during a “dreaming” cycle, don’t be thinking about what your dream was about, ……….. think about how you were “seeing” what was happening in your dream …. iffen your eyes were closed and your conscious mind was not functioning at the time you were having your dream. “Know thy self”.

Lucas, in my opinion, "dreams" is the only "window" our conscious mind has for "seeing" what our subconscious mind is doing or capable of doing. Like creating "live action fictional videos" using bits n' pieces of our stored memories. :D

Migration in birds seems to be an "instinct" and hardwired into the genes.
http://biomed.brown....l.Behavior.HTML
http://www.bioone.or...41/B570211&ct=1


Maybe, but food seems to be the driving force for many species, I believe. Many birds will only migrate as far south as required to “find food”. But, if the eating is good, it wouldn’t explain why they would migrate back north. But one way to find out is incubate the eggs, raise them in isolation and see if they will “go it” on their own.
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#14 lucaspa

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Posted 30 January 2008 - 03:46 PM

Perhaps if you did a bit of research into what junk DNA really is, you'd discover that it's inactive DNA (such as retroviruses that are long "dead"). Much like how human genes can be "on" or "off", only these strands of DNA are no longer complete. They've been evolved out of our system. Thus, they're "junk" and always "off" because they're no longer used.


You have described "pseudogenes". "junk" DNA was a whimsical term given to all the DNA that is not used to code proteins. It includes all the regulatory sequences that precede genes that serve, when bound by proteins, to tell a gene to be expressed or to be turned off when it is being expressed. It refers to transposons, stretches of DNA that are necessary for compacting DNA so that it will fit in the cell, etc.

Obviously some of this "junk" has vital roles. It is unfortunate that many people (including many molecular biologists) took this whimsical name seriously and really thought that DNA that wasn't in genes was "junk" and therefore useless.
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