Organophosphate based weapon synthesis?

[fafalone]

A highly experienced organic chemist should be able to deduce how to make it from its structure. It's not like the US government just stumbled upon it, they had chemists that knew about this area and made modifications. Since there are a number of other uses for organophosphates, not all of them classified, there is logically a number of scientists familiar with these compounds, and could make a guess at how to make this particular variation. Furthermore, the reactions to detoxify it are public and in my possession, it stands to reason under the right conditions these steps could be reversed.

[greg1917]

The British government developed VX gas in 1952 and traded it for thermonuclear information with the US. Apart from inveting the most toxic substance known to man, we also first used automated weapons on civilians (maxim guns in rhodesia on tribesmen), were the first to use concentration camps (the boer war), apparently were the first to use chemical agents in warfare (although i cant remember where i read this and i think its historically debated anyway). An empire built on profits from the slave trade (as well as cups of tea), an empire sustained on the subjugation of its colonial popualtion and an empire which crumbled when colonies were no longer economically successful. We truly are 'Great' Britain.

[greg1917]

I dont doubt a good organic chemsit would be able to name some reagents and synthesis steps from the detoxification steps and the strucure of the molecule, but the only way to obtain a full recipe would be investigation and an attempt to actually produce the agent. many of the reagents are themselves controlled and their sale monitored. just because the iraqis can develop it doesnt mean its easy...

 

I thought the public detoxification steps consisted of things like NaOH and strong bleaches, which doesnt allude to much information on anything in particular.

[fafalone]

phosphites, phosphorous chlorides, and alkyl-diethanolamines are some of the precursors I'm aware of.

[Polverone]

Chemical patents often disclose just enough to make certain processes protected, not enough to actually succeed at producing the subject of the patent.

 

Nevertheless, if you are interested in nerve agents, see British patents 1,346,409 and 1,346,410 and US patent 3,911,059, all available online from espacenet.net. I have more patent numbers around here somewhere, but can't seem to find them at the moment. Check the Merck Index entries on nerve agents - they have patent and journal references. And that book I put up has a lot of good information even if it's not specifically about VX.

[fafalone]

Hence why access to the patent was restricted.

[YT2095]

bubble dry chlorine gas through molten white phosphorous, distill the liquid, then bubble oxygen through that, it will react! (just ignore it).

then bubble dry nitrogen gas through your crude POCl3, and condense the vapors. that will make your POCl3 precursor, at least good enough for making what ever it is you`re making

and you don`t need much of it either in your formula

Another type of nerve gas called tabum (some of the stuff sadam used). is also very easy to make and only need 4 precursors, namely;

Phosphorus Oxychloride

Sodium Cyanide

Dimethylamine

Ethyl Alcohol

it basicly requires that mix these ingredients in a carrier solvent (in correct order), in a vessel, keeping the temperature down as is the reaction generates heat, neutralising the HCL gas as it evolves (sodium hydroxide will do).

remove the carrier solvent with vacume distilation (it`ll increase nerve gas potency).

I`ve kept this vague, but with more than enough info that anyone with basic chem understanding will know exactly how to do it, of course the problem will be getting the precursors in the 1`st place!

[Sayonara]

fafalone said in post #1 :

CH3 O               CH(CH3)2
 \ ||                /
  P - S - CH2CH2 - N
 /                   \
CH3CH2O          CH(CH3)2

 

What's the structure of that group on the lower left? Is that a 3 or a ₃?

[YT2095]

I read it as:

CH3CH2O-P(O)(CH3)-SCH2CH2N(C3H7)2

 

how do you get those numbers to drop like that? is it a CRTL key combo or something?

[Sayonara]

sup tag for superscript and sub tag for subscript

 

[fafalone]

Very cool stuff

[fafalone]

That should be a ₃

[fafalone]

Picture of it:

[Sayonara]

That's more like it, cheers.

 

 

* rubs hands together *

[YT2095]

YT2095, peeks through the crack in Pandoras box and closes it quickly!

[Sayonara]

It's not Pandora's, it's mine.

 

* slams door shut *

[fafalone]

And just so everyone is clear, YT posted that information only after I urged him to for hours, so if theres a problem posting chemical weapon syntheses, you can direct all complaints to me.

[Sayonara]

lol

[fafalone]

Anyone posting information about deadly weapons should get rewards similar to the referal system.

[Sayonara]

What do you get if you claim responsibility for a large chemical explosion before it gets reported on the news?

[fafalone]

You're missing the point that it's legal to post such information.

[Sayonara]

No I'm not, I'm ignoring it and asking a more interesting question.

 

Is it a coffee mug?