ali_baba

please help me: how can this cycle work ?

37 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

other idea

This Perpetual Motion Machine May Not Be Perpetual, But It's Awesome Anyway search on web

 

Untdfghdfitled.png

Edited by ali_baba
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Yes, I saw that one too when I went off and poked around in response to this thread. At least in the place I saw it there was some... "lively" conversation. Pretty astounding how vehemently people will argue even when they don't have any knowledge in the area. I think there's something in human nature that wants to think scientists are either 1) don't really know what they're doing or 2) are trying to hide something from everyone.

 

I watched the video of the one you just posted (at least I think it's the same one) and it "worked" so well that I couldn't believe the people who made it had made an honest oversight of some kind. I think it was a full-on fraudulent design. Could be wrong, I guess, but that was my take-away.

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please help me: how can this wheel work ? or is Trick ?

 

link removed per rules

 

very thank's

BR

 

What I am not sure about is are you asking our opinion because you have seen this elsewhere (as have several members here)

 

or are you trying to sell it to us?

 

 

Taking the best interpretation means I see no call for negative points. So I am adding +1 to what seems to be your latest attempt to discussion the subject reasonably and comply with the rules.

 

However the explanations offered are weak and incomplete.

Here is another omission.

 

 

  • Rolling friction losses ( Rrf ) of the ball on the inner track of the wheel and resulting from local deformation of the raceway under the weight of the ball,
  • Power losses due to sliding of the contact surfaces of the ball and raceway (ω' is greater than ω),
  • Loss of two ball bearings installed on the axis of the wheel.

 

The metal wheel is a conductor moving in a magnetic field, cutting lines of flux.

This motion will generate Faraday eddy currents which will dissipate energy.

So the wheel will stop in time from this cause alone.

 

As a matter of interest many machines, especially rotating ones, become a bit magnetised after working for a period of time.

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Posted (edited)

 

What I am not sure about is are you asking our opinion because you have seen this elsewhere (as have several members here)

 

or are you trying to sell it to us?

 

 

Taking the best interpretation means I see no call for negative points. So I am adding +1 to what seems to be your latest attempt to discussion the subject reasonably and comply with the rules.

 

However the explanations offered are weak and incomplete.

Here is another omission.

 

 

The metal wheel is a conductor moving in a magnetic field, cutting lines of flux.

This motion will generate Faraday eddy currents which will dissipate energy.

So the wheel will stop in time from this cause alone.

 

As a matter of interest many machines, especially rotating ones, become a bit magnetised after working for a period of time.

 

no . i am just an student . thank you dear friend

 

 

this can not work ? is Trick ?

 

Untdfghdfitled.png

Edited by ali_baba
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So tell us your thoughts about the subject.

 

It is more than difficult to have a discussion with a video.

 

So more text and less video please.

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I think there's a trick in that one, yes. The video shows it accelerating over multiple rotations. That's more "goodie" than you can get by starting at a preferential angle.

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This post got me to noodling around online for similar type things. One thing I noticed in the attached conversation is that many, many people seem to have the idea that anything that moves "forever" represents the forbidden perpetual motion machine. They'll note how it "must be possible, since the planets keep going forever." Very few of them seem to get that what's forbidden is perpetual energy output with no source, not simply "motion."

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Posted (edited)

This post got me to noodling around online for similar type things. One thing I noticed in the attached conversation is that many, many people seem to have the idea that anything that moves "forever" represents the forbidden perpetual motion machine. They'll note how it "must be possible, since the planets keep going forever." Very few of them seem to get that what's forbidden is perpetual energy output with no source, not simply "motion."

 

Yes there is a difference between perpetual motion, which is required by Newton's First Law, and a perpetual motion machine. +1 (PMM)

 

Also there are types of perpetual motion machine.

 

Your description refers to PMM of the first kind which is forbidden by the First Law of Thermodynamics or conservation of energy as you say.

 

There is another, trickier, type of PMM called a PMM of the second kind, which is forbidden by

yup you guessed it the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

 

Probably the most relevant enunciation here is that due to Clausius.

 

It is impossible to transfer heat from a colder body to a warmer one without net changes in other bodies.

 

This forbids what amounts to a double first law machine being used as a PMM (that's the tricky bit)

Edited by studiot
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I just found this same video here:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8-Kek8Halc

 

A little way down into the comments there's one by user asm0deus who quotes as follows from the website that posted the video (http://www.veproject1.org/):

 

From the website: "My Perpetual Motion Machines models are of motorized versions that were built to illustrate how they were supposed to work in the minds of Inventors. Never mind what educational level we are at, we all miss something that goes beyond the usual scientific explanations. Fundamental Science, Physics Laws and boring Laws of Thermodynamics bring the ‘flight’ of Inventors’ ideas to land. Growing Technology … We live in an age of consumption. But many of us are still dreaming and believe that the era of creativity has not gone. My PMM models are built for them. I’d like to inspire these people by demonstrating Unworkable Perpetual Motion Machines that were designed centuries ago.""

 

The quote is at the bottom of this page: http://www.veproject1.org/index.php/perpetual-motion/. So it looks like the machine in the video is explicitly acknowledged as being motorized. Mystery solved.

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Visual Education Project has posted here - and their aim is the creation of beautiful machines with interesting histories and no claims of perpetual motion. Some of the mechanisms built are quite amazing works of craft

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Yes, this one was really really pretty. Very sleek looking. And they made what you said very clear on the website. But then the video got into independent circulation without the disclaimer. :-(

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with Best Regards and Thanks from ScienceForums.net and It's members

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

End of Post

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