Silencer Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 Yes, you get Cl and O at the anode and H at the cathode. The Na swims around in the water somewhere. I don't want to mix salt in though because I thought it would be cool to take a hit of pure oxygen. (so obviously having Cl mixed in there is not good). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 oh no, my mistake: http://scifun.chem.wisc.edu/chemweek/Cl2&NaOH/Cl2&NaOH.html Cl at anode and H at canode shown as: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 Yes, you get Cl and O at the anode and H at the cathode NO NO NO!!! s'ok, but the hydroxide ions immediately bond with the sodium ions which then becomes NaOH sodium hydroxide. 2 Na+(aq) + 2 Cl¯(aq) + 2 H2O(l)Cl2(g) + H2(g) + 2 Na+(aq) + 2 OH¯(aq) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 I don't want to mix salt in though because I thought it would be cool to take a hit of pure oxygen. (so obviously having Cl mixed in there is not good). So are you using pure water? because it is a very bad conductor and you will need a lot higher voltage to get a decent produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silencer Posted November 27, 2004 Author Share Posted November 27, 2004 ^Yes, pure water (unless I can get the sulfuric acid like bud suggested). That's why i was wondering about using house electricity. I think that is AC though, so I will have to check with my dad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 yes, it will be AC certainly, depending on your individual country the voltage will vary.... however a few high voltage diodes would sort out the AC probelm at the expense of stutering the flow of electricity, so i dont know how that would effect the electrolysis of it. although normally mains AC is quite high frequency so maybe it wouldnt make a difference. in the UK i think it is about 60Hz, may vary in other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilded Posted November 27, 2004 Share Posted November 27, 2004 "hydroxide ions immediately bond with the sodium ions which then becomes NaOH sodium hydroxide." Ahh yes, of course. Forgot about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Primarygun Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 The product you get depends on the electrochemical series, the concentration, the nature of the electrode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 however a few high voltage diodes would sort out the AC probelm at the expense of stutering the flow of electricity' date=' so i dont know how that would effect the electrolysis of it. although normally mains AC is quite high frequency so maybe it wouldnt make a difference. in the UK i think it is about 60Hz, may vary in other countries.[/quote']a full wave diode bridge would "stutter" nothing. Mains AC is LOW frequency and the UK uses 50Hz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 a full wave diode bridge would "stutter" nothing ok, but just a normal diode would allow flow in one direction and stop it when it is in "reverse". therefore, if you have 50hz mains, 25 in one direction and 25 in the other (AC = alternating current = + then -) you would only get 25 + and 25 nothing, there would be an on off on off thing... think of it this way, AC = +1 and -1 etc, with a diode you'd get +1 and 0 do you see what i mean now? yeah i spose 50hz (or 60hz, whatever) is low freq, just, i dunno, i called it high!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 that`s a halfwave bridge, and it`s still 50Hz not 25. a fullwave bridge suffers no such chopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 that`s a halfwave bridge, and it`s still 50Hz not 25. yeah, i know that. what im saying is that out of that 50Hz only 25 will supply power to the circuit, the other 25 will be 0. therefore obviously you'd need to use a a fullwave bridge which as you say: "suffers no such chopping" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 a cycle is the full peak and trough, passing from 0 through 0 and back up to 0 once. this happens 50 times a second. using a half wave rectifier, it STILL happens at 50x a second, but only the Peak or the Trough is present, there`s NO 25Hz (cps) ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 it STILL happens at 50x a second, but only the Peak or the Trough is present, there`s NO 25Hz ever. that is exactly what i meant when i said: "out of that 50Hz only 25 will supply power to the circuit, the other 25 will be 0" i never meant that there was 25hz anywhere, that was a misunderstaning, probably because i didnt explain myself well... what i meant is that there is always 50 hz... agreed?... for AC, out of that 50hz there will be 25 positive and 25 negative "pulses"... agreed?... together the 25+ and 25- will make 50 in total thus 50hz.... if you use halfwave bridge then you will get 25+ and 25(zero's) as the negative side will be cut off... agreed?... therefore in your 50hz you would only have 25 "pulses" of power and 25 "gaps" where there is no power.. agreed?... therefore these "gaps" would make it unsuitable for electrolysis. (ok, so i went OTT with the agreed, but im not 100% sure how to explain myself and i totaly agree with all your posts (well the last set here anyway!) but maybe you're not understanding mine, well, like, no offence, but we're arguing the same point!!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 HUH?? didn`t you understand my post at all? there will be 50 + and 50- each one is a full cycle. 25 doesn`t feature ANYWHERE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 right ok... diode: only lets electricity flow in one direction AC: is a pulse of positive (in UK 240V electricity) and then a pulse of negative (in UK 240V electricity) at a rate of 50Hz, which is 50 times a second... you have there are 50 switches between positive and negative electricity. so out of your mains you have: +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V +240V -240V per second... therefore you have 25 lots of +240V and 25 lots of -240V per second. now if your diode is only letting through electricity in one direction if either wont let through the + or wont let through the - (depending on which way around you place it)... therefore although you still have 50hz ie. 50 osciallations per second, you'll have: +240V 0V and so on like that for another 48 times (because you already have 2) making a total of 50 in one second which is 50Hz within that 50Hz you would have 25 +240V and 25 0V (together making 50). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 wtf??? you`re REALLY overcomplicating things here! read this before posting again: a Cycle is composed of 2 parts. a Peak wich is above the 0 line and a through that is below the 0 line both of these make ONE complete Cycle. and so at 50Hz (or Cycles per second) you`ll have 50 peaks and 50 Troughs with me so far? now introduce a diode... depending on which way around it is, you`ll get either 50 peaks or 50 troghs per second. now then.... WHERE does "25" of ANYTHING play a part??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5614 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 as we'd say in IRC: /me slaps himself with a large trout um, yes, well, "a cycle is composed of 2 parts"...... moving on swiftly! whatever, the point is that you'd need to use a full wave bridge... and thats that! (woa, that was a nice escape ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 don`t worry about it, I have as many "Blonde" moments as the next guy either way though, full wave or not, shoving household mains into such a device is asking for trouble! step it down 1`st, try it on a car battery charger, see how that goes, but check it every 10 mins for overheating, if it`s still ok after an hour or so, it should remain that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now