It is the most basic and fundamental science.

Why Study Physics?

http://www.aps.org/programs/education/whystudy.cfm

 

do you agree with this ?

which is most basic and fundamental science?

physics or math?

In the past there was no distinction between physics and mathematics. It was only in the 1900's that mathematics and physics really separated. In that era modern mathematics was born. Also, new experimental evidence of a "new mechanics" on the atomic scale was collected.

 

For a while the two communities matured.

 

Now, since the 1980's mathematics and physics have come back together, despite the apparent language barrier.

 

Today mathematicians and physicist work together united by ideas in string theory, gauge theory, topological field theory etc...

 

To me the distinction between mathematics and physics is now very poorly defined.

In the past there was no distinction between physics and mathematics. It was only in the 1900's that mathematics and physics really separated.

I disagree vehemently. Mathematics originally had nothing to do with physics. Yes, physics uses mathematics extensively, motivates the development of new mathematics, and would be utterly lost without mathematics. That does not mean physics is mathematics. The flip side is even further from the truth. Many aspects of mathematics were developed with zero regard for or motivation from the physical world.

 

which is most basic and fundamental science?

physics or math?

Well it certainly isn't mathematics. Mathematics isn't science. Mathematics is a field of applied logic.

 

 

Suppose some future physicists construct an experiment with the intent to validate string theory, but end up doing just the opposite. In particular, suppose they prove there are no curled up dimensions. While this hypothetical experiment would put string theory on a par with phlogistons and caloric, the mathematics that came out of string theory would remain mathematically valid. Mathematics does not operate on scientific principles. It operates on logical principles.

Unless I have math , my physics education isn't going to be a great help here

 

right?

I disagree vehemently. Mathematics originally had nothing to do with physics. Yes, physics uses mathematics extensively, motivates the development of new mathematics, and would be utterly lost without mathematics. That does not mean physics is mathematics. The flip side is even further from the truth. Many aspects of mathematics were developed with zero regard for or motivation from the physical world.

 

Large parts of modern mathematics I would agree.

 

If you look at some old names in physics, you will see that plenty of them also engaged in what we would call mathematics.

 

Try Heaviside, Newton, Hooke, Fourier and many others.

 

Natural philosophy seems a better term here than mathematics or physics.

 

Well it certainly isn't mathematics. Mathematics isn't science. Mathematics is a field of applied logic.

 

I think it is a science, but that will depend on very careful definitions.

 

Mathematics is not simply applied logic. We know this as people have failed to rewrite mathematics in terms of formal logic alone. See for example see Hilbert's second problem and Gödel's incompleteness theorems.

 

 

Suppose some future physicists construct an experiment with the intent to validate string theory, but end up doing just the opposite. In particular, suppose they prove there are no curled up dimensions. While this hypothetical experiment would put string theory on a par with phlogistons and caloric, the mathematics that came out of string theory would remain mathematically valid. Mathematics does not operate on scientific principles. It operates on logical principles.

 

I don't know if any mathematics has come from string theory as such, but string theory (and related things) have given a "physical interpretation" of many interesting things in mathematics. There can often be a "physicists proof " of something mathematically very challenging. Physical ideas even if not rigorously defined, can give a nice picture.

---

Merged post follows:

Consecutive posts merged

Unless I have math , my physics education isn't going to be a great help here

 

right?

 

A lot of people view mathematics as simply the language of science. I think it is a little more than that. Mathematics can lead you to new science and not just present to you what you already have observed.