budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 even if the li could replace the k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 it can`t replace it!!!!!!!!! now if you had LiCL and K metal and tried it, that would be a different story, because with sufficient heat (enough to disassociate the Cl and Li) then I wouldn`t want to be around to see the results, but like any good story, it would certainly finish with "The End" Potassium in Chlorine gas explodes also, in this instance you obtain your Lithium metal though (it may be spread over a wide area, but it would be Lithium metal) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MulderMan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 dont mean to nit pick just flicking through my gcse chemistry revision guide . the reactivity series in it that we suposedly have to learn is : potassium , sodium, calcium, magnesium, alumunium, carbon, zinc, iron, lead, hydrogen, copper, silver, gold. is that right? what grade or year are you in school? if you get to know your science teacher/lab and they trust you they may let you do some 'off-curriculum' experiments, but im not sure how it works in america. but the only time we get to use potassium and sodium is when we do the 'how they react with water' experiment and even thats a demo by the teacher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 if we consider water to be a constant (most measuerments are taken using a water constant) so we`ll consider that a given put a small peice of Li in water and it will fizz and get warm, do the same sodium and it`ll do the same and may even set fire with a yellow flame, do that with potassium and it will do the same but WILL catch fire and burn with a lilac color, and so on down the group, becoming even more violent in reaction, to the point where you put Caesium in water, it`ll sink and then explode! (often shattering the vessel the water was contained in). Lithium is the least reactive of the the group 1 elements, but it DOES have the highest electrode potential, 3 and a bit volts if I rem correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 i think they have it wrong in england:\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MulderMan Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 dont we know it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 i think they have it wrong in england:\ explain yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 As a chemist i will tell you straight POTASSIUM is MORE REACTIVE than LITHIUM. And saying england is wrong is far far from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 wrong word. i said Li is more ACTIVE than K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 wrong word. i said Li is more ACTIVE than K define "Active" then. as far as I know, without a qualifier, the word "Active" is of no significance or indeed used in Chemical terminology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 sheesh they are different in britain:\ heres a definition of activity: "the characteristic of acting chemically or of promoting a chemical reaction" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 in that case then Potassium is far more "Active" than Lithium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 despite all those qualified sources who state otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 28, 2004 Author Share Posted June 28, 2004 think of it; the e- of the Cl- are more attracted to the lithium nucleus because they can get closer to it. take a magnet and put it near a piece of iron. then take a more powerful magnet but put it twice as far away from the piece of iron. which attracts more? the weaker magnet that is closer to the piece of iron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 reactivity is mainly dictated by electons in the outer shell combined with atomic radius. the magnet analogy is flawed and would only apply to the electron in the Lithium atom, and have little effect on a different atom. if your magnet idea was correct, why is Lithium so light? surely it would want to pull itself into 1 tiny atomic bundle until it became super critical! LOL anyway, I give up, if you can`t except a basic chemical fact, then there`s nothing I can teach you or help you with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfson Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Budullewraagh GIVE it UP, you are wrong, its not england thats wrong its you, AGAIN POTASSIUM is MORE ACTIVE/REACTIVE than LITHIUM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 think of it; the e- of the Cl- are more attracted to the lithium nucleus because they can get closer to it. You're misinterpreting how chemical reactions work. When you're dealing with metals and nonmetals, you're looking at a change in ionisation state; one becomes a positive ion and one becomes a negative ion. The only real factors, therefore, are how easily one gives away an electron, and how easily the other accepts it; based on the electronegativities (link) we can see that Lithium is the least reactive of all the Group 1 metals, increasing towards Francium. This is varified by simple experiments involving the metals themselves; as YT says, but Li in water and it will fizz, put Caesium in water and it will explode. What the size of the atom does affect is the ionic character of a bond; with something like Francium, the overall charge is the same as Lithium (+1), but because of the distance, because of shielding electrons, the force between the metal ion and the nonmetal ion is much less for the larger ion, meaning that it acts more and more distinctly from its partner, whereas Lithium compounds tend to act strangely (compared to other metal compounds) because they're more covalent in character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 ok, calm down. how can you say that all the sources i provided are incorrect? they are all valid, professional sources. again, i urge the lot of you to search online for "activity series of metals". tell me what you find; i found many sources supporting my thesis but never one stating that K is more active than Li can you explain how people have reacted KNO3 and Li and obtained LiNO3 and K? this is actually true; they tested the K in H2O and noticed the purple/lilac flame and it was a much more vigorous reaction than lithium could ever produce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 ok, calm down. how can you say that all the sources i provided are incorrect? they are all valid, professional sources. again, i urge the lot of you to search online for "activity series of metals". tell me what you find; i found many sources supporting my thesis but never one stating that K is more active than Li. do you beleive EVERYTHING that`s writen on the net? not only that, but WHY would I have ANY cause to tell you lies??? can you explain how people have reacted KNO3 and Li and obtained LiNO3 and K? this is actually true; they tested the K in H2O and noticed the purple/lilac flame and it was a much more vigorous reaction than lithium could ever produce. no, I certainly can`t explain that, because it`s not possible, and the only possible way such an occurance may happen, would certainly NOT need Lithium in the reaction! if anything, it would actualy hinder it by affecting the melting point! I seriously HATE to use this phrase, as it goes against all I beleive in with regards to Scientific evidence, but you really have to "Trust Me" on this one! Lithium will NEVER replace Potassium in a displacement reaction! EVER!!!!!! the other way around yes, and with ease, LiNO3(aq) + K(s) will make KNO3 and LiOH. in a dry reaction, LiNO3+K(s) will leave Li(s) and KNO3 (although you have to factor in, that the temps required to do this will leave your KNO3 as a NitRITE rather than a NitRATE, and the oxygen liberated would react with the Li metal directly making the OxIde). I or US have NO REASON to tell you lies! it`s more than our reputaion`s worth to do that! and my rep means alot to me! you`re a smart chap, and obviously studying Chem at school, why not ask your teacher(s) whether we`re right or wrong? I can`t say fairer than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 this wasn't from online; this was in non-fictional books! i'm sorry if you think i'm accusing you of lying. i certainly do not intend to say so. in fact, i have a great deal of respect for you. problem is that school is out and i can't contact any of my chem teachers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 in that case then, remember this until school is back on and ask then until then, why not try this as an experiment for yourself? at least THAT way you`ll know 1`st hand that what we`re saying to you is correct be carefull with Lithium metal though!, it`s not the most reactive, but it`s Hydroxides will love nothing more than to attack your skin oils and then proteins! Wear Gloves and Eye protection at all times! and rem, Li batteries contain di-ethyl ether, and can cause serious explosion/fire hazzards as well as bad head aches if inhalled in close quarters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 i am considering it. problem is that lithium batteries are so expensive. how much lithium can i obtain from one AA battery? how about an old rechargable cell phone battery that no longer works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 about a gram max from an AA bat. as for rechargables , what sort do you mean? Ni-Cad, Metal-Ion, Hydrides? I don`t know of any Lithium rechargables (although they CAN be recharged, don`t let anyone tell you otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budullewraagh Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 in the 1980s nokia started making li rechargable batteries Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 go for it then, but make sure they`re fully charged 1`st, you`ll get a cleaner product Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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