Recruiting More Women to CS

[Pangloss]

Interesting article in today's New York Times about the push to recruit more women into CS programs.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/17/science/17comp.html?_r=1&8dpc&oref=slogin

 

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, demand for computer scientists in the United States will only increase in coming years, Dr. Cuny said. “If you look at the demographics of the country, if we are not going to get our new professionals from women and minorities and persons with disabilities, we are not going to have enough.”

 

“Women are the canaries in the coal mine,” Lenore Blum, a computer scientist at Carnegie Mellon University, told an audience at Harvard University in March, in a talk on this “crisis” in computer science. Factors driving women away will eventually drive men away as well, she and others say.

 

These experts play down the two explanations most often offered for flagging enrollment: the dot-com bust and the movement of high-tech jobs offshore.

 

“People think there are no jobs, but that is not true,” said Jan Cuny, a computer scientist at the University of Oregon who directs a National Science Foundation program to broaden participation in computer science. “There are more people involved in computer science now than at the height of the dot-com boom.”

 

I think they're right on target, and I've heard that many CS/IT programs around the country (including mine) are facing serious enrollment challenges these days. What do you all think?

[bascule]

Nerds are scaring away the girls

[Adrian]

At the university of houston-downtown campus, there are not that many CS majors...and that sucks because nowI have to wait a full year to take a class that I need. o well...

[Pangloss]

Yup, I think this is a common problem in CS programs around the country.

 

At the graduate school where I got my Masters degree, they have twice as many students in the "CIS" program as they do in the "CS" program, and twice as many again in MIS and CTE (computer technology in education).

[Adrian]

Yup, I think this is a common problem in CS programs around the country.

 

At the graduate school where I got my Masters degree, they have twice as many students in the "CIS" program as they do in the "CS" program, and twice as many again in MIS and CTE (computer technology in education).

 

Those CIS/MIS majors are CS major dropouts. They will end up being supervisors at a call center, or doing tech work all thier lives.

[Pangloss]

Or in my case teaching programming at a university. Don't judge a book by its cover, friend.

 

CIS/MIS doesn't have to be a second-rate degree. I agree that it often plays out that way, but what it NEEDS to be is a middle ground between business management and information technology. How many MBAs graduate each year, with barely enough computer know-how to manipulate a mouse and create a letter in Microsoft Word? SOMEBODY has to understand how to manage and manipulate the corporate database. And it sure as shootin' ain't gonna be a CS type. THEY should be busy inventing the next great killer app.

[bascule]

Unfortunately sometimes CS types do have to play DBA. It sucks.

 

My hope is better, simpler databases (i.e. Erlang's Mnesia)

[mzscientific]

i agree women are dropping out of cs a lot more often when i started the first semester of my college year there were way more girls than boys..........now there are more boys than girls almost seems as if there aren't any girls in class most of them changed their major to information science

[ecoli]

I'm trying to follow this thread, but there's too much alphabet soup. Would someone define their terms for an outsider?

[D H]

CE = computer engineering

Core focus is on how to build computers. Covers concepts from the electronic gates up to the operating system.

 

CIS/MIS = computer/management information systems

Core focus is on tools (e.g., databases, spreadsheets) needed to solve business problems (e.g., payroll).

 

CS = computer science

Core focus (undergrad level) is on computer programming, data structures, algorithm theory, and computer architectures.

 

DBA = database administrator

This is a job title, not a field of study. A DBA maintains some database, such as a databases of corporate clients, company products, and company employees.

 

SE = software engineering

Core focus is on techniques needed to build and maintain LARGE software systems. In comparison, computer scientists solve toy problems.

[ecoli]

many thanks.

[ecoli]

I just discovered another reason to study CS

 

[theCPE]

Usually CE = civil engineer, unless of course your school doesn't offer Civil engineering.

 

Which leaves CPE for computer engineer.

 

Or you can always call computer engineers EEs because they are close enough:)

 

BTW, when is there going to be a push to recruit more males for nursing or elementary education, fields that are heavily dominated by women?

[fermion]

Today there is a major enrollment problem in CS, and in fact in most branches of engineering in the US. This statement applies to men and women almost equally. It stems from the fact that the engineering is considered very hard education and very hard work (after graduation) with poor pay. The average engineer (any kind) does not earn as much as an average real estate agent, let alone comparisons to doctors and lawyers. Young people are well aware of this fact: males and females both. If the average engineer's salary was $200K, the college kids will be flocking to engineering programs in most universities with good reputation. Again this applies to males and females both! I have teenage sons (who are very good students), but I cannot convince them to study engineering in the future. I am not sure if I can recommend it to them in good conscience given the reality of the financial world out there.

 

How is it possible that we have a shortage of engineers, and it is likely to get worse in the near future, and yet the engineering wages are not rising at a rapid pace? What happened to supply and demand? The US corporations solve the supply problem by importing engineers from abroad. These engineers do not make significantly less money than those who are US citizens, but their sheer numbers depress the wages for everybody. In CS and CIS, easily more than half of all practicing engineers are not US citizens (at least around where I work.)

[foodchain]

Today there is a major enrollment problem in CS, and in fact in most branches of engineering in the US. This statement applies to men and women almost equally. It stems from the fact that the engineering is considered very hard education and very hard work (after graduation) with poor pay. The average engineer (any kind) does not earn as much as an average real estate agent, let alone comparisons to doctors and lawyers. Young people are well aware of this fact: males and females both. If the average engineer's salary was $200K, the college kids will be flocking to engineering programs in most universities with good reputation. Again this applies to males and females both! I have teenage sons (who are very good students), but I cannot convince them to study engineering in the future. I am not sure if I can recommend it to them in good conscience given the reality of the financial world out there.

 

How is it possible that we have a shortage of engineers, and it is likely to get worse in the near future, and yet the engineering wages are not rising at a rapid pace? What happened to supply and demand? The US corporations solve the supply problem by importing engineers from abroad. These engineers do not make significantly less money than those who are US citizens, but their sheer numbers depress the wages for everybody. In CS and CIS, easily more than half of all practicing engineers are not US citizens (at least around where I work.)

 

I don’t know, I have looked into engineering programs before, and I don’t think its just money or coursework alone that is the final factor. For instance, I would like to eventually work in biology, I would like to work on my own in microbiology. That’s difficult coursework, and well the pay is not so great, and there does not happen to be a boom in the market per say. I just think you cant squish the interest factor. I mean I am interested in physics, but for what its worth, I could easily spend a great more deal of interest in my life studying simply a specie of wasp when you get down to it. Maybe, just maybe not everyone wants to be an engineer or a computer specialist.

 

On the flip side I suppose it lessens the competition factor for those already in the field, but I guess it could lead to more outsourcing, which is typically bad in some cases because the company usually screws everyone involved save for management.