Evolution of the Flamingo?

[ender7x77]

Wow....we just got this hw question about the evolution of the flamingo and i can honestly say i have no idea of how it occurs...If we were able to explain using Larmarkism then it would be quite easy but i have to explain it through Dwarnism and mutations. I understand the function of its billed beak and why it contorts it neck to inverse its bill in order to filter food. But how did it evole to this oddity? I assume that it started initially as like a stork or heron with a large beak, but it had to undergo some type of isolation, which caused it to evolve or mutate...does anyone of any suggestions?

[mr d]

Hello

 

Might think about that you may have answered your own question.

 

The need to filter fish. Question: enviormental range of Flamingo (climate needed for survival, including predatory species), what changes could have happened to cause it to need to filter fish in such a manor, and what condictions might limit its ablility to migrate elsewhere.

 

Mr D

[ender7x77]

ya i understand that, but isnt that an Larmark way of thinking. I have to think possible mutations that the Flamingo may undergo to become a flamingo. How did a Flamingo go from a stork looking bird to being able to contort its neck enough that it could inverse its bill in order to trap organisms and filter out the unnecessary. Maybe a mutation could be that something changed in the Flamingos vertebrate that allowed it to put its bill upside down? Another aspect i must consider is what change occurred first: the billed beak or the ability to inverse it? Thanks for the reply.

[Mokele]

It's often hard to understand the evolution of a specialist on it's own. It helps to look around at species in the same broad taxonomic group that may have part or all of the adaptations seen in the specialist.

 

For instance, consider ducks. Many are dredgers and detritivores, feeding on small animals, soft water plants, and algae. Some have ridges on their bills to help strip plant matter. Some others have actually developed these ridges to the point they can filter-feed a bit, but nowhere near as well as flamingos.

 

It's actually not that hard to imagine that a shore-dwelling bird feeding on vegetation evolved ridges to strip plant matter, then used them for floating algae, then suspended particles (each time, the filter mechanism becoming more advanced). Long legs evolved to allow them to reach deeper waters, with the commensurate long neck for reaching the water in the shallows. As for being upside-down, it's not that much of a stretch; many animals with long necks could be said to do the same thing when feeding from the ground, if you think about it.

 

It's also worth noting they aren't the first. Pterodaustro as an ancient pterosaur (flying reptile) with a 5-foot wingspan which developed a mouth full of bristles to filter-feed. It's even suspected that, since it feeds like flamingos, and they get their color from their food, this pterosaur may have been pink!

 

Mokele

[ender7x77]

It's often hard to understand the evolution of a specialist on it's own. It helps to look around at species in the same broad taxonomic group that may have part or all of the adaptations seen in the specialist.

 

For instance, consider ducks. Many are dredgers and detritivores, feeding on small animals, soft water plants, and algae. Some have ridges on their bills to help strip plant matter. Some others have actually developed these ridges to the point they can filter-feed a bit, but nowhere near as well as flamingos.

 

It's actually not that hard to imagine that a shore-dwelling bird feeding on vegetation evolved ridges to strip plant matter, then used them for floating algae, then suspended particles (each time, the filter mechanism becoming more advanced). Long legs evolved to allow them to reach deeper waters, with the commensurate long neck for reaching the water in the shallows. As for being upside-down, it's not that much of a stretch; many animals with long necks could be said to do the same thing when feeding from the ground, if you think about it.

 

It's also worth noting they aren't the first. Pterodaustro as an ancient pterosaur (flying reptile) with a 5-foot wingspan which developed a mouth full of bristles to filter-feed. It's even suspected that, since it feeds like flamingos, and they get their color from their food, this pterosaur may have been pink!

 

Mokele

Thanks a lot that was very insightful!!! So I'm starting to get the idea...The mututations occur somewhat like Lamark had thought to happen. Gradual changes can occur over time due to mutation when species are trying to adapt to their environment. Now thinking that structure comes before function...i believe the development of the bill comes first and, as you said about the inverse, to come second (i guess you disagree with a change in their vertabrate...i know it was a huge guess)...I guess all i need to know now is why the bill is shaped how it is...maybe perhaps by looking into the advantages of the filtering i may be able to figure that out....So for now i have the initial species which is like a stork who for some reason due to its beak is unable to obtain x amount of food (i need to check into its environment)...next a mutation occurs where the flamingo developes ridges on its beak which enables it to strip plant matter...another mutation occurs which causes larger ridges to promote filtration.....(insert a mutation in the shape of the bill)...and lastly you get the fully functional and structual flamingo.

[Mokele]

The mututations occur somewhat like Lamark had thought to happen. Gradual changes can occur over time due to mutation when species are trying to adapt to their environment.

 

Not quite. Mutations occur randomly and constantly, but also a *lot* more often than most people realize. Statistically, I can assert that you, personally, have 4 mutations that affect final protien structure.

 

It's not so much that the needed mutations happens at the right time as the idea that if you keep playing poker, one day, you'll draw a straight flush. A population of hundreds of thousands of organisms, each with several mutations, is equivalent to drawing 400,000 poker hands: statistically, there's a good chance that there's a very good hand amid all that crap.

 

Now thinking that structure comes before function...

 

Sort of. You need a structure in order for a function to happen, but a function can already happen and just be improved by a change in function. For instance, animal A runs, and the legs already fill that function, but slightly longer legs improve that function.

 

i guess you disagree with a change in their vertabrate...i know it was a huge guess

 

Actually, no, I just didn't mention it because it's pretty common in bird. All mammals have 7 cervical vertebrae (except sloths and manatees), and all the different mammal necks are made by modifying those 7. This is actually very odd; birds, reptiles and amphibians all have tremendous variability in neck vertebrae.

 

So actually, I suspect it's a pretty fair bet that flamingo necks are modified.

 

So for now i have the initial species which is like a stork

 

Don't be fooled by the long legs. Long legs may have evolved *after* filter-feeding, as they have repeatedly evolved in different lineages.

 

We actually don't know what flamingos came from; the fossil record is very spotty in that regard.

 

.next a mutation occurs where the flamingo developes ridges on its beak which enables it to strip plant matter...another mutation occurs which causes larger ridges to promote filtration.....(insert a mutation in the shape of the bill)...and lastly you get the fully functional and structual flamingo.

 

Bingo. Many complex traits are really just the end result of a series of steps.

 

Mokele

[ender7x77]

Not quite. Mutations occur randomly and constantly, but also a *lot* more often than most people realize. Statistically, I can assert that you, personally, have 4 mutations that affect final protien structure.

 

It's not so much that the needed mutations happens at the right time as the idea that if you keep playing poker, one day, you'll draw a straight flush. A population of hundreds of thousands of organisms, each with several mutations, is equivalent to drawing 400,000 poker hands: statistically, there's a good chance that there's a very good hand amid all that crap.

 

 

 

Sort of. You need a structure in order for a function to happen, but a function can already happen and just be improved by a change in function. For instance, animal A runs, and the legs already fill that function, but slightly longer legs improve that function.

 

 

 

Actually, no, I just didn't mention it because it's pretty common in bird. All mammals have 7 cervical vertebrae (except sloths and manatees), and all the different mammal necks are made by modifying those 7. This is actually very odd; birds, reptiles and amphibians all have tremendous variability in neck vertebrae.

 

So actually, I suspect it's a pretty fair bet that flamingo necks are modified.

 

 

 

Don't be fooled by the long legs. Long legs may have evolved *after* filter-feeding, as they have repeatedly evolved in different lineages.

 

We actually don't know what flamingos came from; the fossil record is very spotty in that regard.

 

 

 

Bingo. Many complex traits are really just the end result of a series of steps.

 

Mokele

I know some of it is a stretch, but we are just suppose to make speculations on how their bill and the function developed from it evolved. Hmmm...are flamingos really not unique for inversing their beaks like i understand that you say that all birds have the capabilities to do so but flamingos have a functional reason for doing it... With that in mind, the bill is obviously shaped the way it is to allow it to gather a large quantity in order to obtain more food. Larger surface area, larger amount to filter, better chance for more food. Now, i just have to think of a way it may have evolved to that..

[ender7x77]

So I think I got it...if anyone could confirm that would be great (expand would be even greate though:-) )...here's the exact question if it helps any of you...The flamingo feeds on tiny aquatic organisms with its bill held in an "upside-down" position. How might this bill shape and feeding pattern have evolved?

 

Here is what i got:

Initial Species - No mutation has occurred - Behavioral Adaptations: The bird preceding mutation most likely had a long beak in order get to food from the water.

 

Mutation 1 - Ridges on the beak form, which allows for virtually no filtration - Behavioral Adaptations: Enables the flamingo to strip plant matter.

 

Mutation 2 - Exaggerated ridged surface, which allows for large enough openings for effective filtration - Behavioral Adaptations: Flamingo is able to filter out what is not necessary for them in order to maximize on food consumption.

 

Final Species (Mutation 3) - The bill has extended downwards - Behavioral Adaptations: Flamingo is able to hold a large quantity to filter by turning its head inversed; ultimately maximizing on food consumption.

 

That is what i got... i think i should add though, that perhaps something happened to the vertabrae of the flamingo or even something that caused the function because i do believe that it is unique what they do (even though mokele turned it down) which allows it to inverse its bill to hold the water for lack of a better word.

 

Anyways, i am kind of struggling with this unit if anyone has not noticed. Anymore help would be great. Thanks Moleke for all the help so far.

[SkepticLance]

We do not actually have to envisage any mutation at all to get things started. It is quite possible for a totally unmodified organism to 'filter-feed' albeit inefficiently. Imagine our primeval flamingo to be is a bird with a large beak. It strikes the water chasing fish. Ejects the water that comes in with the fish, and swallows. Except this time there is no fish. Even so, a significant amount of organic material may be in the water, and this it swallows.

 

If a bird develops the habit of swallowing organic rich water, when fish are less available, it is the start. Mutations after that are advantageous if they assist this 'filter-feeding'.

[ender7x77]

We do not actually have to envisage any mutation at all to get things started. It is quite possible for a totally unmodified organism to 'filter-feed' albeit inefficiently. Imagine our primeval flamingo to be is a bird with a large beak. It strikes the water chasing fish. Ejects the water that comes in with the fish, and swallows. Except this time there is no fish. Even so, a significant amount of organic material may be in the water, and this it swallows.

 

If a bird develops the habit of swallowing organic rich water, when fish are less available, it is the start. Mutations after that are advantageous if they assist this 'filter-feeding'.

Thanks a lot! That give me a lot of insight on what may have preceded the structure of a flamingo, but the problem is that how did it go from eating fish to eating very tiny aquatic organisms. I understand that mutations can just occur and as a result is a new structure and function, but with this question i have to specualate that it occurred gradually and not instantaneosuly. Anyways, i very much appreciate your comment. Thanks!

[SkepticLance]

Just by analogy, Orca (also called 'Killer Whales') hunt small fish such as sardines. They will pick up a number of small fish in one mouth-full. This is a predator that kills seals, dolphins, whales (and here in New Zealand, the local pod specialises in sting rays and sharks). Yet they are adept enough to carry out a kind of 'filter feeding' by engulfing a number of small fish at one time, and ejecting the water without losing the fish.

 

If we assume that flamingos began that way, then any mutations or other genetic changes that improved their ability to ingest organic matter while ejecting water is a selective advantage. Once the process begins, it can carry on to the current level of adaptation.

[ender7x77]

Just by analogy, Orca (also called 'Killer Whales') hunt small fish such as sardines. They will pick up a number of small fish in one mouth-full. This is a predator that kills seals, dolphins, whales (and here in New Zealand, the local pod specialises in sting rays and sharks). Yet they are adept enough to carry out a kind of 'filter feeding' by engulfing a number of small fish at one time, and ejecting the water without losing the fish.

 

If we assume that flamingos began that way, then any mutations or other genetic changes that improved their ability to ingest organic matter while ejecting water is a selective advantage. Once the process begins, it can carry on to the current level of adaptation.

 

Thanks, but if you could be more specific on the mutations you would make my life exponentially for the better for today had to be the most enduring i had to suffer through so far this year in school. I'm just not sure about anything anymore, i thought i got my head fixed, but life is full of plethoric surprises. Today, so many things went wrong it made me think just what is the point. I work so hard at things and then when i fall, it feels like an abyss had opened below me and i am yet to find an end. So if you could please spare me the hints which i am suppose to decode to find my anwser it could potentially save me from lodging an acute object into my chest to remove the pain that is failure. I thought i made the right choice, but now i am second guessing. Anyways, i doubt anyone will respond at all to this, but no really ever responded to me in the first place so colour me unsurprised.

[ender7x77]

Can anybody else help me please. There is a lot riding on me doing well on this assignment and i'm having much trepidation because of that. Please, I know someone here is able to anwser this or confirm it. Please its due tomorrow, and this all i have.