IronMan79

And then why not smash car engines against each other in huge magnetrons and see how they disintegrate in many different pieces, maybe even while the car engines are running, a car engine accelerator (instead of particle accelerators) to study how they break up colliding, and make believe they are metaphysical entities... Anyways from: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=178194 "Does it mean that on a microscopic level the universe operates in ways so obscure and unfamiliar that the human mind, evolved over eons to cope with phenomena on familiar everyday scales, is unable to fully grasp 'what really goes on'? " I'm bored. I will answer since I am bored and don't know what to do to waste some time (but time wastes us as we get closer and closer to death). At what point would you be satisfied by your "understanding" ? what would constitute an "understanding" ? A capability to manipulate to any degree matter ? do you fully grasp anything at all ? can you fully grasp anything at all ? At what point would you be satisfied with the understanding you imagine you could get ? how would you imagine 100 % understanding of something ? do we ever understand anything at all ? If I gave you an answer on how Quantum Physics "really works", would you ask me yet another question ? And how many other, a never ending array of new questions can you come up with ? and what if the questions themselves were the explanations and the explanations the questions ? and what if the answers were totally disjoint and unrelated to any questions, all disjoint and a chaotic mess ? Take the waves on a shore, can you predict the next form ? and if you could, what would you have achieved ? would that satisfy you ? I tend to look at these kinds of problems and doubts and all as some kind of imaginary problem the mind has, the mind seems to want more than it has, seems to want something different or better or whatever. But I think all of these kinds of problems can be solved simply changing the circuits of our minds, and assigning them as fully satisfied, fully achieved, fully in 100 % understanding mode, in full discovery of all achieved. Or as science is the activity that formats the unknown into the known ? Or describes some intractable things into other tractable and clear things, as converting or translating a sequence of symbols (a set of input information, a configuration of input bits) into another sequence of symbols that we "recognize" and "understand" (or we assign it as if we understand ? ). Maybe the entire deal is simply the action -> reaction circuits in which we put ourselves in, as in the questions -> answers circuits, or the out -> input as reaction to output circuits, so in essence what we are looking for is an interaction space large enough to contain all possible entities and their interactions as we interact with reality. Science and Research as a constant cycle of ever new sequences of symbols containing ever new and larger classes of phenomena: It is like an answer to a question, a new set of symbols that may allow you to manipulate and interact further with reality, and this provokes another different set of questions and a further new set of answers that allow you to manipulate and interact with reality even further and so on for many cycles until you reach a point where you can interact and manipulate reality in all possible modes, for anything you want, in any possible way so as to satisfy any possible desire or start point to target point, goal oriented intentionalities. But this total "satisfaction achieved" can be obtained in two faster and simpler ways: 1) simply declaring yourself "totally satisfied", "totally achieved" or inventing a symbol any symbol or concept or anything at all, nay, simply lying to yourself to the extreme that "all has been achieved, all has been discovered", you are now completely satisfied by a FINAL SYMBOL (invented or real ? or simply a lie ? who cares, as long as it works), a final sequence of symbols that really means "All Possible Discoveries Achieved Once and For All and Forever"; OR 2) Modify the circuitry of you mind brain, change your Man Brain, manipulate the neural circuits and connections and subsystems until you reach "Total Satisfaction Achieved", until "Everything You can Ever Want And Desire is Acheived". Hey Busty, I WIN, I WON, I AM A WINNER, JOBSTER LOBSTER, APSTER MAN, SHLACLA LACK, SHPACK A LACK, SHLECK A LAK A SHPECK A LAC, A SHPECK A LEK A SHLEK A LEK SHPEK A LEK, I WIN, PLEASE LET ME WIN, LIKE A CRYBABY, I AM A CRY BABY, I WIN I WON, JOBSTER LOBSTER, APSTER MAN, JOBSTER LOBSTER, APSTER MAN, YOU MAIR, YOU FAIRY, CHICKEN PUA, PA PA PA PA CHICKEN , YOU MAIR YOU FAIRY, JOBSTER LOBSTER, APSTER MAN... And I am a 21st Century Schizoid Man. 2001 A Space Odyssey. Planet of the Apes. Reminds me of: From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=177699 "Question: What was there before the big bang ? Answer: Would you ask me a different question if I gave you an answer ? Question: and what was there before a "question", any "question" ? Answer: another question .... Question: What is the generalized solution to all possible questions ? Answer: a Symbol." From: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/64391-laws-of-physics/ "Smash things together to produce a region so hot, and so chaotic that the current theories no longer make sensible predictions. We then examine the outcome, to see which new things happen." And then why not smash car engines against each other in huge magnetrons and see how they disintegrate in many different pieces, maybe even while the car engines are running, a car engine accelerator (instead of particle accelerators) to study how they break up colliding, and make believe they are metaphysical entities... You may want to reference this: http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html Where I write a lot... Thank You. You're Welcome.

From: http://www.----.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=178178 Instant Singularity 4 With regards to the fact that Man is the infinitely programmable machine: I have often described the Instant Singularity, or better one of the many millions of different possible types of Instant Singularities as occuring by changing the wiring of Man Brains, making them do things differently, connecting all the subsystems in different ways, nay, inventing completely new subsystems (memory systems in mind, emotional systems, sense organ systems, etc.) and in fact I often use expressions like "Stick a Jet Engine in your Brain", shove wild symbols, signals and chemicals in the ball of meat that is the man Brain, everything you see around you could be a new design for a new Man Brain as in everything is a brain, as in BRAINIUM, etc. But, this is kind of over doing it, is going too fast and too forward too soon: I was looking at a baby play, ad was thinking, you don't even need to change the wirings to start experimenting, you just need to change the way the Man Brain is programmed from the set of signals and reactions the Man Brain gets used to respond too: of course the baby is programmed culturally, linguistically, to respond to certain invariants in the environment, but a new born Man Brain is a blank piece of paper, you could associate anything with anything, program it in an infinite number of new ways, it could grow up in a completely new universe and experience space if programmed in such a way: granted a far call, it is far out, but I can imagine Man Brains, as they are presently configured being programmed by computers, or the entire Man, the entire body living in completely artificial environments where the rules and associations are decided by supercomputers (or randomly or scientifically or artistically, you name it) trying out all the possibilities, possible combinations, possible new configurations, wildy new and creative and colorful associations, relationships, new modes of memory and emotion usage, etc. of the Man brain as it is presently configured: I think, already, as is, the possibilities of these Man Brains entering completely new universes with completely new laws of physics, completely new and wild and incredible experiences, new kinds of Instant Singularities are completely possible. AN APE MAN

From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=178178 Essentially: 1) Free Salaries to all, about 800 dollars a month since we live in an excess capacity free wealth generating economy thanks to the Technological Economy's huge economies of scale, automations, optimizations, etc. There is no longer any excuse for any poverty except if it is explicitly desired forced and planned by old fashion Ape Man ideologies and social structures; 2) Cheap or Free Rents, since we have many empty houses, at least 15 million empty homes across the USA and maybe 20 million empty homes from Lisbon to Moscow in Europe; (I am assuming the readers are mostly from the USA, EU and JAPAN, but this is valid in many parts of the world anyways); 3) Huge Public Private Projects like Huge Increase of Consumerism, Millions of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, High Speed Trains, You Name it, anything and everything that activates huge projects for the common good, huge collective endeavors so all have a goal and function as opposed to the fashionable "small businesses" and "startup ideology" and "be your own boss" ideology that dominates today so that everyone fights everyone else and doesn't create collective constructions and endeavors. 4) It goes without saying that Nature is to be Used and Conquered and it is not a Religion or something spiritual: Man must use up all of Nature to finally achieve Mind Over Matter, the Final Symbol Over Matter War Won By Symbol aka as "KILL NATURE". I hate the Greens, Environmentalists, and most of the dominating Standard Economic Theory. AMEN. From: http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html "But that explosion of the current technostructure was a product of fossil energy exploitation, not the cause of it, and those energy supplies have fairly defined boundaries." Good Reply ! That's the way I like it, when someone replies the ideas in a post and not all the petty personal and insignificant crap. The current technostructure is a product of oil, but oil too is a product of technology and know how. It goes both ways. And we can find many new energy sources if we really wanted to: but that is the problem, the dominating ideologies, both left, right and green have put a psychological brake on the advancement of Man just when this advancement is now totally possible. We can harness Atomic Energy, Solar and others, we can decrease energy usage by using mass transit and skyscrapers, we can do many many things. But if everyone says it can't be done for a never ending list of reasons, mostly make believe and intentional reasons, it will never be done and we will go back to the stone ages. The capitalists say that it can't be done (and don't do it) because there is little profit to be made and because resource scarcity plays very nicely in their hands, they have an excuse to not distribute wealth since it is so "limited" (everything is running out): The greens and environmentalists say (and don't do it, namely create new Atom Energy plants and such) that oil is running out, the earth is running out of resources and we are way too many people, etc. Everyone else says that workers are lazy, uneducated, untrained turds that don't deserve a job and such. So, how on earth will anything ever possibly improve ? No chance at all, that is the way a stone age Ape Man Brain has condemned humanity to going backwards instead of forwards. "Despite your counter-rhetoric, you still view the situation through the neoclassical lens of supply and demand economics." Could be, after all, all of our thought is constrained by dominating words which imply values and decisions and intentionalities already implied and taken even before you put the words together to form a thought. The only way out of the straight jackets of all of these ideologies is to constantly question the reality of the basic invariants, the words considered unalterable, the reference system, so even "OIL is running out" can easily be seen as an ideology that conditions all other possible thoughts, whereas this may not be true at all or may have a very limited effect considering how many new technologies and how much scientific know how we now have to compensate this. But alas, it is always a fight, a confrontation, A against B, two conflicting will powers (that try to justify and hide the real simple conflict behind ideologies and words): I want skyscrapers and rockets, you want trees and such. AN APE

Laws of Physics What bugs me is not only the fact that these laws seem to appear exactly and only because we set up matter in such a way as to express mathematical relationship, but also because we impose functions upon matter, we impose causes and effects that resonate with the solution of concrete practical problems that must be solved, we impose a logic upon matter as the logic applies to us and our mind language and intentionalities and goals and such, therefore the laws of physics really are not "general" laws at all, just "happens to be" mathematical type laws as convenient patterns our Man Brain already, from the outset, from the get go, implicitly superimposes upon matter according to how we interact with matter, according to how our very arbitrary and quirky design and sense organs and functionalities interact with matter, but nothing more general or deeper than this, hence not really laws of physics, but laws of a specific Man Brain interacting with matter according to very arbitrary and specific rules accordingly. Case in point, technology doesn't investigate things that have no practical use, things that are not functional to some kind of problem solutions: we will not construct a mechanical computer (but even the idea of a computer already means a function that must be performed, a problem that must be solved, matter must be configured to solve a problem, we are not experimenting with all kinds of random configurations of matter just for the fun of it, for curiosity (maybe what art does ?) but are configuring matter to make it perform a function, hence solve a problem, hence the importance of the mathematical relationships associated with the solution to the problems at hand, the measurements and the formulas that are important for us in order to reach a target, hence we measure the speed of calculations, the forces of the circuits, the currents, the relationships between leakage currents and voltages and all kinds of mathematical relationships that are important only within the framework of the solution space corresponding to the problem space) with car engines and pistons just for fun, but will create things that are optimized and functional and such. And such is most of all of our science: the problem space is first defined, the solution space is created, the targets and intentionalities of use are defined, and all of the mathematics and equations important within this arena are studied and then declared "laws of physics", when they are not really, they are only laws convenient for our goals. What I am trying to get at is that we don't construct irrational circuits with integrated circuits just to see what they do with no goal or function in mind: heck we wouldn't even know what to measure, what to put into relationship with what else, what measurement is to be related to what other measurement if there are no goals in mind, what mathematical relationships we want to express as those relationships are then the basis for navigating towards a clear cut target and function and goal based sequence of steps. But that is what we should do: design the craziest circuits possible and contraptions possible and study them (but then, the very idea of studying them doesn't seem to make any sense any more since studying them would mean finding significant relationships, but the significant relationships only exist within an ideology so to say, a clear cut reference system of goals and activities and causes and effects and logics, a language, a sequence of symbols already defined even before the studying is performed). Kind of like what measurements, signals, quantities do you want to put into a relationship with what other measurements ? which two variables do you want to relate and hence discover the "mathematical relationship" of ? without any clear cut goals and targets, any two or three or anything can be put into a relationship with anything else, and maybe some of them will be mathematical relationships (others simply invented symbolic relationships or invented relationships), most will be unrelated, and many will be very chaotically and statistically related and such, hence the laws of physics are really the laws that we want physics to express according to our goals, the mathematical relationships that we discover are really the relationships that we want matter to express as they resonate with some specific functions and goals we have in mind. Build crazy contraptions, crazy configurations of matter, study them, or pretend to study them, invent relationships, even if they are "false", have fun, this too is real science, is the creation of ever new laws of physics... Millions of random analog circuits on chips all interacting in crazy ways, huge complex mechanical engines with trillions of complex moving parts doing all kinds of weird things, all the possible configurations of matter, matter without the prison of function, matter as free to express itself in ever more new combinations, no longer under the dictatorship of goals, targets and functions as imposed by the Ape Man Man Brain...

Please study all of this very carefully and reply and study all of nameta9's posts on www.ilovephilosophy.com very carefully. Thank You. You're Welcome. From: http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html THE CLOWN Hey Busty, are you the Clown Who Believes in Absolutes ? Everyone is a measuring device against everyone else, everyone is a temporary and relative (and can always change in any way) reference system against which everyone else is measured, judged, acted upon, and especially conflicted upon since a measurement of a person as compared to another may be "wrong" and needing to be fixed (people fighting are conflicting and different reference systems trying to dominate and win): but if everyone is a reciprocal reference system, then there is no reference system at all, there is no Absolute, only reciprocal, insignificant, quirk measurements that have no value at all except the value the totally subjective (hence always wrong and insignificant, nay, EVIL) turd performing a measurement assigns arbitrarily, just for fun, for NO REASON AT ALL. Is that why people need GOD and his BOOK OF TRUTHS ? Each person is like the ground state in a transistor circuit, measuring the voltages and signals of the various terminals with an oscilloscope, and reading different signals, since each one is measuring the signals from a different ground state, a different voltage level, nay, even a different signal being placed as a ground state: hence all the signals are different, contrasting, they are all different measurements that, taken as a whole are meaningless and arbitrary: IN OTHER WORDS THEY ARE ALL WRONG. So, just suck it up Busty, there are no Absolutes, so please, pretty please build me my 456 thousand trillion 1966 Oldsmobile Ninety Eights for me by tonight, I need a ride. And by the way, don't worry if you completely demolish and kill nature in the process, NATURE IS OUR ENEMY, KILL IT WITH ALL OF YOUR GUTS, PLEASE HATE NATURE'S GUTS LIKE A WILD CLOWN, GET IT ON THE RUN AS IN "LOOK AT MOTHER NATURE ON THE RUN IN THE 1970S". Like when you see a person and another person and then the streets and the highways and homes, the invariants, and then you try to imagine how a chunk of matter that constitutes an invariant can be transformed into a given person, what is the distance in numbers of configurations that matter is frozen into compared to the street, car and person ? And how many possible paths can matter traverse to go from being a house to a highway to a person then again to a car (AN OLDSMOBILE...), etc. How many paths, how many distinct configurations are between them all, and is there a middle ground, and is there an alternative path with fewer intermediate states (or mixed states ?), and what if the intermediate states were more significant, or a one shot transformation from person to car to star to atom to Man Brain to thought, etc. And then why communicate ? for chunks of matter to shorten the distance between themselves ? or for them to imagine that they are similar and the same (since matter is afraid of disintegrating the very essence of its own existence, it knows that it is a relative quirk and must confirm itself by waking up and pretending to be alive and measuring itself with a contorted contraption in the form of a Man Brain) ?... THE APE MAN

Give Us Back The Old West Like when you see in movies, the two cowboys confront each other finally, they will have a short and small duel (or will slug it out), the fastest pistol to shoot wins, end of story. So the opposition between will powers is a simple affair, no need for ideologies, for lawyers, for complications, for justifications, for religions, for millions of blocks of texts and thought processes and mind games and debates and politics and consensus and convincing others that "you are right", that you "have the truth" that you are spiritually and morally correct, that the rules of society and common living must be those you think are right and such. No, it is a simple shoot out, the two fight, the stronger or luckier wins: cut the crap, the winner doesn't need any justifications, there are no justifications, there are no debates or rules of laws or theories and ideologies and common good or politics that must back up the winner: the winner simply wins, the fight and confrontation is a very short and simple story, no longer any complications, the truth is only what happened, the justification is within the event itself, it is over and done and finished and correct, spiritually and morally and metaphysically because reality is not deep and the rules and life between people have nothing deep about them: there is no religion and no absolute truth, only constant fights and bickerings, constant confrontations between opposing will powers and may the winner, any winner win. We are not more or better or deeper than this essentially: the Man Brain is a primitive Ape Man Machine that has nothing deep about itself, it is just a little insignificant turd that wants to fight and win. And in fact, it is so insane that so many people, politicians, theoreticians and anyone keeps on reasoning, creating blocks of text to justify why "they are right", all of that mental effort for something so stupid essentially, to be within morality, to create the better laws, to create the better decisions when there is nothing at all about it but a simple fight, A against B, end of story. The justifications never end, the religions never end, the Jews against the Muslims, Blacks against Whites, this and that (look at vlad, he writes thousands of lines of text simply because he would want to beat up some nigger end of story, but he needs all of these moral and spiritual and metaphysical justifications to back it up, he can't be honest with himself and simply say : I hate blacks and want to kill or beat them up or whatever, end of story, there is no need for ever more texts and theories, it is simply A against B, the theory and justifications can go on forever, and any position can be justified can be demonstrated to be correct, but that is totally irrelevant, just beat up who you want and win, end of story). As if we have a Hate to Symbol Generator Machine, or Conflict to Symbol Generator Machine, the more pent up opposition and hate and conflict there is between two opposing entities, the more symbols, texts, debates, politics and lawyers and whatever is generated, as if all the energy that a short fight would require is used for a long never ending complex, mind game debate, a theoretical never ending chess game between the opposing factions, etc. Just like ideologies are being used to subtly manipulate people's minds in order to win, and they do win, since for example in Southern Europe all the debates rotate around how evil the labor markets are, the workers are "too protected" or "not flexible enough" or "need new training" in order to find "jobs" and such: a subtle brainwashing where the words already assign who is to blame and what must be changed and it is always the weaker social classes that are guilty of something (like this myth of training, you lose your job you need new training for something else, as if the workers are never trained enough, it is their fault, they don't have the appropriate training, or education or whatever and this goes hand in hand with the myth of always having to change jobs, you will have 10 different jobs in a lifetime so of course you will always need new training since according to the dominating ideology you will be a surgeon one year, the next year an engineer, the next still a singer and so forth and everyone buys in to this huge pile of BS: the truth is that for those 3 or 4 idiotic simple manipulations and information processing manipulations 99 % of the jobs need, there is no training at all required, just some common sense, but they all want to make it seem so special, so complicated (and actually many jobs are rendered complicated with never ending "meetings" since they all have so little real work to do, so they complicate and mess up simple activities to create imaginary work and mostly "more time at work so as to make it seem you are producing more" and such) to hide the fact that simply, there is not enough work for everyone so you have to invent an excuse). So please, give us back the old west, just a short pistol fight, cut all the ideological crap, cut all the crap, just a short fight, and the winner may win, who cares who wins, it is irrelevant. Give us back the good old west where two men looked at each other in the eyes and extracted a pistol as fast as possible and one of them shot another and that is the end of the story. It is so much more honest, genuine, pure, metaphysically correct after all, instead of all of this ideological and political hiding, all of this theoretical BS, this lawyer like society where everyone is acting like a lawyer, this Information Society and Information Economy where everyone would like to beat up everyone else but can only use words instead of fists. As an example: From: http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html "But that explosion of the current technostructure was a product of fossil energy exploitation, not the cause of it, and those energy supplies have fairly defined boundaries." Good Reply ! That's the way I like it, when someone replies the ideas in a post and not all the petty personal and insignificant crap. The current technostructure is a product of oil, but oil too is a product of technology and know how. It goes both ways. And we can find many new energy sources if we really wanted to: but that is the problem, the dominating ideologies, both left, right and green have put a psychological brake on the advancement of Man just when this advancement is now totally possible. We can harness Atomic Energy, Solar and others, we can decrease energy usage by using mass transit and skyscrapers, we can do many many things. But if everyone says it can't be done for a never ending list of reasons, mostly make believe and intentional reasons, it will never be done and we will go back to the stone ages. The capitalists say that it can't be done (and don't do it) because there is little profit to be made and because resource scarcity plays very nicely in their hands, they have an excuse to not distribute wealth since it is so "limited" (everything is running out): The greens and environmentalists say (and don't do it, namely create new Atom Energy plants and such) that oil is running out, the earth is running out of resources and we are way too many people, etc. Everyone else says that workers are lazy, uneducated, untrained turds that don't deserve a job and such. So, how on earth will anything ever possibly improve ? No chance at all, that is the way a stone age Ape Man Brain has condemned humanity to going backwards instead of forwards. "Despite your counter-rhetoric, you still view the situation through the neoclassical lens of supply and demand economics." Could be, after all, all of our thought is constrained by dominating words which imply values and decisions and intentionalities already implied and taken even before you put the words together to form a thought. The only way out of the straight jackets of all of these ideologies is to constantly question the reality of the basic invariants, the words considered unalterable, the reference system, so even "OIL is running out" can easily be seen as an ideology that conditions all other possible thoughts, whereas this may not be true at all or may have a very limited effect considering how many new technologies and how much scientific know how we now have to compensate this. But alas, it is always a fight, a confrontation, A against B, two conflicting will powers (that try to justify and hide the real simple conflict behind ideologies and words): I want skyscrapers and rockets, you want trees and such. AN APE

How to Dismantle Ideologies The real question is why no one ever doubts or opposes the dominating Standard Economic Theory ? Why is there no real Oppositional Theory against it ? Because as soon as the reference system is set up, as soon as the words and concepts are pronounced, as soon as the invariants of the theory are declared, without anyone noticing it, you already lost any debate against them. As soon as words like Competition, Innovation and Productivity form the framework within which the debate must navigate, it already sets up a precisely and scientifically predetermined thought path or paths from which it is impossible to escape unless you completely negate and dismantle all of the terms of the debate. How words automatically set up thought processes from the outset. The reference system of the ideology is set up by the choice of words and concepts that pretend to be absolute and a given, not up for debate. But all attempts at creating oppositional theories have always been wrong, naive or too simple: such attempts are the hippies back to nature, resource scarcity, anti consumerism attempts and such. Or the good old marxism or communism theories and such, etc. Never really using the only tool available that could deconstruct and demolish the Standard Economic Theory: and namely Technology itself, the concepts of technology the standard theory uses so well to make believe how they are always right and have technology on their side, etc. Well, it is the other way around: technology is eliminating the need for work, is creating free wealth and this can easily be distributed. The reference system made up of the words "Competition" (as in you must fight, and everyone believes the economy can only be a fight and such), "Innovation" (you must invent something new when everything possible has already been invented, and then how many possible new valid inventions are conceivable anyways ?) "Productivity" must increase aka work more for less pay, etc. already sets up the complete ideology, there is nothing left to debate, the words have created an automatic thought process from which no one can ever escape or hope to win any debate. Hence the economists all approve of punishing Greece and similar. But don't be fooled, it is just a giant, Iron Clad Ideology that has been taking everyone for a ride.

From: http://www.ilovephil...hp?f=3&t=178178 Another reason why the "West", the "First World", the Three Stooges USA, EU and JAPAN are in a rut economically is because the amount of work and new jobs, opportunities, startups and businesses, the amount of new "Possibilities to Produce a Profit", as that is the only real reason any endeavor is started, is proportional to the Speed of Change and Introduction of New Technologies: case in point: during the 1960s, 70s, 80s and up until the 90s technology was changing constantly in the sense that there were always new ways to do old things and new things to do or that could be done economically but couldn't be done previously (like electronics applied to cars and such) mostly thanks to Moore's Law (every two years the number of transistors that can be placed on a Silicon Chip doubles and such but we are now at the end of the line, we have maybe only 3 or 4 years left of Moore's Law Free Lunch) and other novelties like Software, then Internet and in other fields Genetic Engineering and such. But the change corresponded to new companies and production processes and hence new hires and jobs, so that a company that didn't need to produce 5 circuit boards but only 1 thanks to integration had other new problems to solve like maybe software and packaging and logistics and other problems that previously were not there because the technology did not impose them. So this created a constant flow of old companies closing and new companies opening, old jobs dying and some new jobs being born (but I am sure the amount of new jobs was and will always be less than the amount of initial jobs, the number of jobs are always less than the initial amount as a Technological Economy destroys more jobs than creates them by definition, structurally, from the outset since technology is introduced to save money, cut costs and this means, no matter what, somewhere down the line job cuts and less work needed). But this process was tied in deeply to the exact sequence of change of technology that occurred, it was a one time play out, a one shot game, a one time quirk that happened only because the combination of technologies and events, the particular specific one time combination could occur only once and in that exact way and never will occur again, at least never again in a similar fashion that happened then. And this is the problem: the Standard Economic Model pretends, wants to believe, makes believe (whether on purpose or to simply hose workers and such) that that sequence of events is a given, will always occur in the same way and generate jobs in the same way as they did in the past (and therefore the constant Drone of "More Education", "More Innovation", more "Competition" "Be Your Own Boss since we will all become Inventors - Startups" and such): but this is false, is not possible and in fact we are having a very hard time creating "new jobs" exactly because most of the application of innovation is presently killing jobs and most of all because the way the application of innovation created jobs was due simply to the process of the application of innovation going through a set of stages where each stage killed jobs and created some. But there are no more stages left, the set is finished, over, end of story. And most of all, most of the application of innovation has been achieved, is finished doing its "job", we are at the end of the line in technologies creating new jobs, we are at a saturation point, at an end point, web pages and APPs and such just won't cut it anymore. So this game is now mostly over, there are very few new technologies that seem to be creating "new jobs"; nay, they are mostly destroying jobs: the creation of IPHONE APPS or Data Centers for FACEBOOK can create some, but never enough to really employ millions of people, and then these jobs are accumulative, the more work is done perfecting these data centers and APPs the less need for that kind of work will there be in the future. So, as you see, any real attempt at explaining the economy today must come from random anonymous people thinking with their own minds and trying to understand what is happening, you won't hear any professional economist or theoretical social scientists ever explain anything that isn't the same old Standard Economic Model BS, the standard BS they have all been chanting for decades, and if it is not them then you will find the same old "Nature Loving" (as if Nature is a new Religion - I HATE NATURE, KILL NATURE!) Resource Scarcity Myth crowd explaining how we all must go back to the Stone Ages to Save Nature, Hug Trees, and OIL is running out, Man is Bad because Consumerism is Bad, TV is Bad, We are "TOO MANY PEOPLE" and such BS. The truth is the exact opposite: we can host thousands of trillions of people in trillions of Skyscrapers, We can explore the Solar System and Split the Sun and Grab an Infinite Amount of Energy and so on. And TV is the best thing to ever happen to Man, a completely automatic life, just park thousands of trillions of people in front of TVs for trillions of years 24 hours a day. AMEN. In other words, I am the only one who has figured out all of this crap in the entire world, everyone else is wrong and sucks and is brainwashed. Learn something jackas*ses, study all of my posts very carefully... So if the amount of work and new jobs is proportional to the Speed of Change and Introduction of New Technologies, this means that the speed of change has slowed down quite a bit, and the introduction of new technologies (real new technologies, not web pages or APPS which are just good old computer programs or GROUPON which are just good old coupons and such) has also slowed down quite a bit: and in fact name me a really new technology that has been introduced in the last decade ? None at all, it is always new combinations and applications of old technology used differently and such. And you won't hear any professional economist or theoretical social scientists ever explain anything that isn't the same old Standard Economic Model BS, because if they were to admit that the Technological Economy destroys jobs and will keep on destroying jobs the only solution would be FREE SALARIES TO ALL, CHEAP RENTS AND HUGE PRIVATE PUBLIC PROJECTS LIKE SKYSCRAPERS AND ROCKETS TO MARS, ETC. AND NOT, I REPEAT NOT "MORE EDUCATION", AND "MORE INNOVATION" AND "MORE COMPETITION" (so as to make it seem as if it is always the worker's fault and shortcomings and not the system structurally). TOBOR AN APE MAN From: http://www.ilovephil...hp?f=3&t=178178 Subtle Device And in fact, the emphasis on "More Education", "More Competition" (you have to be competitive !), "More Productivity" and "More Innovation" makes it all seem so Logical, so Natural, so Obvious, etc. The words lend themselves to such a simple Linearity, to such a simple Cause and Effect Mechanism (hiding all the real non linearities due mostly to simple power relationships and power struggles really deciding what to do and how to do it and who to hire and how many to hire and such, nothing automatic here and no "Invisible Hand" of the market is ever really working, it is all POLITICS at its finest and most subtle), to such a simple, almost Common Sense description on "Why the Economy is Not Good": subtly it constantly associates and connects all the problems of the economy to "Shortcomings" ,to "Something that Someone is Doing Wrong", to someone "That is Not Up to It", that is not "Competitive or Productive or Educated or Trained or Innovative Enough" etc. And that someone is always the workers (or students or government workers, etc.), always the weaker players of society that messed everything up since they are lazy, uneducated turds and such. And this lends itself directly and obviously to punish, fire, layoff those faulty of the shortcomings: workers and all the weaker players in an economy (pensioners, retired, poor, needing health care) etc. It is always, one way or another the workers fault or a country's fault for not being Competitive, Productive, Innovative or Educated enough, so beat up Greece and Spain and such. But mostly, it is and will always be impossible to ever be "Educated enough" and "Competitive enough" and "Productive enough" to satisfy the Worldwide Economic Morality Police, so many workers and regions and nations will never be able to "Compete" against Silicon Valley or Germany or JAPAN or South Korea, you will never be able to build the new 3 billion transistor Microprocessor to "Compete against INTEL" and such or the next Audi A8 to "Compete against Germany" and such. Impossible targets, and then blame the victim and the victim blames himself and everyone blames the victim and wants to punish the victim especially all the government workers of Greece, that make, oh so much money (1,000 dollars a month, wow, such a high salary, go figure, now slashed to 700 dollars month, still too much though...) so go fire them all. And so the economy is doing bad because people are not Innovative enough, or Educated enough or Productive enough and so on, keep on brainwashing everyone worldwide with this huge boatload of BS.

I have posted my solutions extensively under the www.ilovephilosophy.com social forums and under www.kunstler.com blogs: Essentially: 1) Free Salaries to all, about 800 dollars a month since we live in an excess capacity free wealth generating economy thanks to the Technological Economy's huge economies of scale, automations, optimizations, etc. There is no longer any excuse for any poverty except if it is explicitly desired forced and planned by old fashion Ape Man ideologies and social structures; 2) Cheap or Free Rents, since we have many empty houses, at least 15 million empty homes across the USA and maybe 20 million empty homes from Lisbon to Moscow in Europe; (I am assuming the readers are mostly from the USA, EU and JAPAN, but this is valid in many parts of the world anyways); 3) Huge Public Private Projects like Huge Increase of Consumerism, Millions of Skyscrapers, Rockets to Mars, High Speed Trains, You Name it, anything and everything that activates huge projects for the common good, huge collective endeavors so all have a goal and function as opposed to the fashionable "small businesses" and "startup ideology" and "be your own boss" ideology that dominates today so that everyone fights everyone else and doesn't create collective constructions and endeavors. 4) It goes without saying that Nature is to be Used and Conquered and it is not a Religion or something spiritual: Man must use up all of Nature to finally achieve Mind Over Matter, the Final Symbol Over Matter War Won By Symbol aka as "KILL NATURE". I hate the Greens, Environmentalists, and most of the dominating Standard Economic Theory. AMEN. Check out: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835 "SKOTT FREE HANDOUTS I want that, I want free stuff, why don't the OWSers ask for free stuff, free all, free stuff and you will be free! Are they afraid of "bad manners" ? Do they really think this "economic system" is based on anything else but crap, turds, layabouts and thieves ? Why is Bill Gates, who robbed 50 billion dollars considered "valuable" and all of those asking for scott free handouts "criminals" ? We need free stuff, this system won't generate anymore jobs because they are not needed." "The system has a very hard time repressing all the excess wealth it generates and has a very hard time distributing it because of stone age old fashioned economic laws. Hence the wealth accumulates in the 1 %, but the 99 %, the OWSers don't ask for the only thing really capable of changing this situation: SCOTT FREE HANDOUTS, FREE SALARIES OF 800 DOLLARS A MONTH, CHEAP RENTS OF 200 DOLLARS A MONTH FOR A 3 BEDROOM HOUSE, ETC. Therefore the mathematical solution is scott free handouts to all, cheap rents, trillions of new skyscrapers, new rockets, cars, you get the idea." From: http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html That was from: http://instantsingularity1.blogspot.com/ Ok, it no longer belongs in the Rant House. Check out: The Masterpiece: Instant Singularity http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=177939 To enter use: user. spider9629 password: magnoliaM1 Thank You. That was from: http://instantsingularity.blogspot.com/ Ok, it no longer belongs in the Rant House. http://instantsingularity3.blogspot.com/ Ok, it no longer belongs in the Rant House. Check out The Rant House on www.ilovephilosophy.com to enter: To enter use: user. spider9629 password: magnoliaM1 Thank You. "You better get used to being bored, to not having anything to do anymore, to not having any goals anymore, to not achieving your "career", to not being equal to all the other turds anymore, to not thinking that you are a special little turd who "worked hard" to have more than Mrs Jones next door, who is a layabout, welfare queen, etc." Does that read right ? I wanted to say: "You better get used to being bored, to never having anything to do anymore, to never having any goals anymore, to never achieving your "career" again, to not being better to all the other turds anymore, to stop thinking that you are a special little turd who "worked hard" to have more than Mrs Jones next door, who is a layabout, welfare queen, etc." or "You better get used to being bored, to having nothing to do forever from now on, to having NO goals forever from now on, to never having any kind of "career" again, to being exactly equal to all the other turds, hence never better than anyone else forever from now on, to stop thinking that you are a special little turd who "worked hard" to have more than Mrs Jones next door, who is a layabout, welfare queen, etc." From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=177835 That was from comment number 17 from the beginning of thread, at Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:32 am

From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=178178 and http://kunstler.com/blog/2012/02/the-john-brown-moment.html Give Us Back Good Old FASCISM... In the 70s or 80s that which is happening in Greece would be considered, under all points of views, a Right Wing Fascist Type Coup, a Pinochet style change in government, it would be considered a pure Fascist like take of power on behalf of the Powers That Be (which are mostly the Capitalist, Free Market Ideology, Globalism Bible, Punish Workers and Anyone who is not a Superstar Winner like "Germany" and such) that want to impose a complete doctrine, an Economical Doctrine that is considered the Absolute Truth, the Bible Straight From GOD's Mouth about how a society should function and Who Should Pay For it, etc. Or it would be seen as an Act Of War upon an entire population, a Declaration of War against the state of Greece. And, just as Fascist and Pinochet type governments have done in the past, the entire idea is based on Punish Workers, especially Public and Government Workers which are considered thieves, not worthy, criminals, bad people stealing money from the really hard working Rich Capitalists and Financial Market Elites, etc. But especially what is absurd and wrong is this completely dominating and brainwashing constant Drone of "Economic Growth", to be "More Competitive", to increase "Productivity", etc. when these concepts are 1) Totally undefined, unclear, abstract, impossible to pinpoint down in practice; 2) Even if and when defined somewhat, have nothing at all to do with the medicine that societies are supposed to take to become so much more "Healthy"; 3) Do not take into account none of all of the Non Linear and completely new effects a globalized, Technological Economy that now has automation, job killing technologies and millions of very cheap and very capable workers from entire continents now available and eager and willing to take jobs away from the (once was ?) "First World" (but only from those areas deemed evil and bad and deserving to be Punished like Detroit, or Greece, or Portugal or any other of so many regions within North America and Europe). This constant use of words like "Competitiveness" and "Productivity" especially is so totally saturating all discourse on why the economy sucks, is considered an absolute moral truth, is considered some kind of absolute bible that no one dare doubt and put in discussion: but as soon as you try to really understand what these words mean and how are they supposed to be applied you discover that they are void of any meaning, non applicable and just a place holder and excuse to rob from the poor and give to the rich, to punish in all possible ways the working class, to punish entire countries and people, punish the victim and let the victim blame himself, punish anyone who does not abide to such a high and strict and stringent standard, just like the German corporations that are the Winners, and Greece and Portugal and Ireland should also build corporations capable of building BMWs, Mercedes and Audis and sell millions of them across the world since they are mostly Status Symbols, just like the Apple IPHONE and such, and if they do not they deserve to be punished, they deserve to be beat up by the worldwide Morality Police and such. Does anyone ever ask themselves, "Who are we Competing Against" ? "Exactly in what arena and in what endeavors are we "Competing against and For"" ? Exactly what are we "Producing" that must be produced even more and faster and with less inputs (mostly less workers and/or less salaries to workers). No one knows, no one questions this, no one cares, but if you are not "Competitive" and "Productive" enough your "Economy Will Not Grow" and such. What on earth does that possibly mean ? Are we competing against maybe South Korea in flat screen TVs and smart phones ? is that why Greece must be punished ? Are they not producing enough Luxury Cars like Germany ? Is that why Greece must be punished and such ? What a boatload of crap all of these economists and the dominating ideology want to shove down everyone's throat worldwide: why not just cut the crap and install right out FASCIST DICTATORSHIPS THAT CAN FREELY FIRE ALL WORKERS, CUT THEIR SALARIES PRIVATIZE THE ECONOMY AND DO WHATEVER THE HELL THE MODERN ECONOMIC BIBLE IMPOSES WITHOUT ALL OF THE FAKE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS BULLSHIT, WITHOUT ALL OF THE FAKE CONSENSUS BULLSHIT AND SUCH! Please give us back the Good Old Fascist Governments like Pinochet, please give us back the good old fascists, they look so much more honest and genuine and not hypocritical as today, give us a dictatorship that will simply impose the bible of "Economic Growth" and "Competitiveness" and "Productivity" by force, as it should be, as it really is being done, only they want you to believe that there is some kind of consensus and "Democratic Process" behind it when it is one gigantic lie. Just be honest and cut the crap, impose whatever you want, whatever the Modern Economic Theory imposes as Correct: but they don't want to because then when all of their statistics fail in the future because of this they would have no one else to blame but themselves and their fairy tale Economic Theory (since the entire Economic Theory and debate is based on Numbers and trying to make the numbers or forcing the numbers to coincide with an imaginary "success" like "Economic Growth Numbers", Unemployment Numbers and such, but the numbers are essentially all fake and made up anyways, the Greeks aren't the only ones who made up numbers, the entire world of Economics is one gigantic making up numbers and lying as much as possible). One day I am an extreme right wing thug, the next a left wing thug, the next an anarchist the next Pro Business and Pro Capitalist and Pro the Standard Economic Theory, the next anything at all, always changing "Political Positions", since all positions are wrong and right, it is all useless anyways, everything will happen anyways no matter what. But that is part of the general philosophical problem of the flow of new configurations in your memory and the idea that you are "progressing": if you set up the sequence of information configurations your Man Brain has been exposed to since birth and all the rules and knowledge and the idea that you are wise and such and see them one after another, you think you are progressing: but it is not so, you can jump to any past configuration in a jiffy and always be back to where you where, they are all equivalent all wrong and all right, all a combination of all others, all changing and never advancing, or advancing in any way you want to invent that they are advancing... And what is happening to Greece reminds me of what happened ten years ago in Argentina: they had their currency tied to the US dollar but could not keep such a high evaluation of their currency compared to their economy, hence they had to disconnect their currency from the dollar and such. Anyways, it is truly absurd that such a large continent economically wise as Europe can't save 10 million people from poverty: the European economy GDP is more than 10 trillion euros and they can't support maybe 100 billion Euros extra for a small insignificant region of itself, 300 million people can't save 10 million, what c*cks !?! Europe sucks, should be absorbed by the USA or China, they are all special little turds, the place is a piece of crap, hate them with all of your guts, please. Oh, Norway is his own little special turd that can't be inside a federal union, England the same, Switzerland the same (all the rich hogs want to keep on hogging the money they robbed from everyone else, slobs, snotty snobs and turds, hate them please, with all of your guts, please). If you are not a Superstar Economy like Germany then you deserve to die: now how idiotic can you possibly be !?!?! It is like the USA wants Missouri or Oklahoma to be like Silicon Valley California and such ! Are they sick turds and crazy ?!?! Hate them with all of your guts, please. And then all of the jobs and wealth that Germany has (since they work so hard and are so Competitive and such) are the jobs all the weaker countries in Europe lost since they can't compete with Germany and such. So as you see, the system is all about increasing inequality, is all about Winner take all, like Apple that is the winner and takes all and such. The system worships inequality, it does all it can to increase and affirm and produce inequality, but then turns around and beats up the loser because the loser isn't as good as the winner, and the loser is blamed for not being the winner and must become a winner no matter what. Now how turdy and crappy can you get !?!? Are they sick in the head or what ?!?! Hey Detroit is not Silicon Valley so Detroit must be punished, this is the idea, get it ? What turds, hate them please with all of your guts, please. So they want to change the minimum salary in Greece to 400 Dollars a month: Pretty cool, hu ? So let's see: India and China factory workers are from 50 to 200 dollars a month accordingly, so another 2 slashes on the Greek minimum wage, say 200 and then 100 dollars a month (maybe at 100 dollars a month, Greek workers will have finally become "Competitive", "Productive" and worthy of still surviving and not starving to death, but alas, they still are not Germany...) and finally Greece will be firmly within the pay range of most of the world (mostly the Third World Pay Range as the Modern Economic Model considers correct and morally just as this Model is given to you directly from GOD and his Absolute Truth Bible on all Economic Affairs). And they want to fire thousands of Government Paid Workers (everybody loves to fire Government Workers, everybody loves to hate people paid by the governments, it is such a fun worldwide sport, freely hate anyone's guts since they are paid by the governments, really cool: this begs the question: if you keep on firing people, who the hell will have any money to buy the real goods produced by the efficient "competitive and productive" private sector anyways ?). I think these economists and theorists are kind of living in the past: just because a short lived model of economic success based on innovation and startups and competitive companies provided a lot of new wealth in the US and JAPAN and parts of Europe during the booming 1970s to 1990s, and mostly because of a very specific and quirky development in new Technologies, Computers, Software, Internet and Others, it is expected that this model is now the bible and will work forever and will be true forever and such. Hence, any place in the world that does not follow this bible is doomed to starve to death and such. But this model is Utopia, a fairy tale, impossible to achieve and expect that ever country worldwide follows this, except for a few places that have been doing their homework for decades like Germany, JAPAN, Silicon Valley, now South Korea (becoming a real Economic Powerhouse) some other places and areas, and some other sectors, etc. After all, Germany has always been an Industrial and Technological Powerhouse, hell, they fought the entire World War II for 5 years against the entire world, all by themselves, of course they are special, they have always had a huge Industrial Base, built tanks, weapons, you name it, they have always been economic winners, good for them. But how on earth can you expect puny countries like Portugal, Ireland, Greece, a good chunk of Italy (Southern Italy) a good chunk of Spain, etc. to be even closely as competitive as them ? That is absurd, that is just an excuse to beat someone up, the Powers that Be are Bored, are having a field day being Bullies and beating up poorer economic regions, accusing them of not being Industrial, Economic, Technological and Scientific Powerhouses. Why not beat up Somalia, and ask them why they aren't creating new Microprocessor Industries like Intel and companies like Apple ? Why are you not Bill Gates and Steve Jobs ? So if you are not Steve Jobs, you deserve to be beat up and starve to death, great, what an idiotic Standard Economic Model all of these economists believe in, and to think these clowns pay large amounts of money to universities to get degrees in this stuff, you couldn't invent this insanity if you wanted to. On the past configurations stuff, also, everything that happened in the past not only repeats (always slightly differently), but everything you thought you acquired, solved and conquered is back to zero again, maybe was all wrong, maybe will always be all wrong, and so you go back and forth forever, all different configurations of information the Man Brain remembers or processes, but mostly fails to achieve ever. Amen. Just like I was reading how bad government involvement in the economy can be, how much waste and corruption and such it lends itself to, right, but the alternative, any alternative like private involvement in the economy is never guaranteed to give the results hoped for, you can always be wrong on anything and everything no matter what. Just because it is the opposite (private vs public and such) doesn't mean it is the solution or right: most likely everything is all wrong no matter what since the Man Brain sucks, this contraption must be thrown away and a new one must be inserted in its place... Another simple thing many don't understand: you can freely fire government workers, increase the age of pensions for all, do all you want and save money as much as you want, all can be done, all kinds of austerity programs, cut costs, cut wastes, don't pay any social benefits, don't pay any "Entitlements" (the word itself means a poor lazy welfare queen and lazy slob wanting to sponge off all the hard working folks (remember divide and conquer, and especially let the poor fight amongst themselves)), all and anything you want: THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY IS SAVED, HOW MANY WORKERS FIRED, HOW MANY BENEFITS AND ENTITLEMENTS NOT PAID ANYMORE, NO MATTER WHAT ALL AND ANY OF THE MONEY "SAVED" WILL NEVER GO BACK TO ANYONE IN SOCIETY AT ALL: IT WILL SIMPLY BE COMPLETELY HOGGED UP BY THE ALREADY SUPER RICH, NO MATTER WHAT. And that is the point: the system is not out to solve the debts and get the economy going again: it is simply out to take away as much money as possible form all the possible weaker players worldwide and transfer it to the already super rich, for what on earth are job cuts good for ? How can firing people be of any benefit to the economy and such ? A totally huge ripoff of all time, make them believe there are all of these debts and hose them all, fire, layoff, take money away from everyone but stop short from the 100 trillion dollars those few thousand super rich families worldwide have. What a boatload of crap all of these economists and the dominating ideology want to shove down everyone's throat worldwide: why not just cut the crap and install right out FASCIST DICTATORSHIPS THAT CAN FREELY FIRE ALL WORKERS, CUT THEIR SALARIES PRIVATIZE THE ECONOMY AND DO WHATEVER THE HELL THE MODERN ECONOMIC BIBLE IMPOSES WITHOUT ALL OF THE FAKE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS BULLSHIT, WITHOUT ALL OF THE FAKE CONSENSUS BULLSHIT AND SUCH! THE BOTTOM LINE THOUGH IS THAT NO MATTER HOW MUCH MONEY IS SAVED, HOW MANY WORKERS FIRED, HOW MANY BENEFITS AND ENTITLEMENTS NOT PAID ANYMORE, NO MATTER WHAT ALL AND ANY OF THE MONEY "SAVED" WILL NEVER GO BACK TO ANYONE IN SOCIETY AT ALL: IT WILL SIMPLY BE COMPLETELY HOGGED UP BY THE ALREADY SUPER RICH, NO MATTER WHAT.

No, I am not trying to solve any problem or trying to perform any function: I just wanted to know what could I expect if I use the transistor "upside down", just for fun, for curiosity, so the idea is to inject a signal in the Emitter and another different one in the Collector and see what would come out of the Base: of course this is not the way a transistor is configured, but that is exactly why I would like to know what could possibly come out of the Base. I imagine a very weak mixed (non linear ?) signal.. but I am just guessing... It is just an experiment not an application....

The Man Brain is a Pattern Searching Machine, hence it automatically always wants to process Information and new Information. You may want to check out all of nameta9's posts on www.ilovephilosophy.com such as: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=176611 or http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/63868-information-relationship/ or http://instantsingularity.blogspot.com/

From: http://www.ilovephilosophy.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=178163 But, that is the subtle goal: the reason why I thought about it in the first place: the "destruction of meaning" or the "teasing of reality" so to say, just for fun (hence the reason why it is in philosophy forums in the first place ?). Wrong Answer: tell me what could come out of the Base if it is used as the Output...

I am not trying to solve any "problem", I am not trying to perform any "function", etc. I was just curious to know what happens if a signal is injected into the Collector and another in the Emitter and the base is used as an Output: I know that this is not "the way transistors are used", I know that you can mix signals in many other ways, etc (like injecting a signal in the Emitter and a different one in the Base and getting the Output from the Collector, etc. ), etc. I was just wondering how a transistor would behave if you made it work "upside down" in a sense, just for "fun" and "curiosity". I thing that you could expect a very weak signal out through the Base because of "leakage currents" and signals and such ?

I would like to see if it is possible to mix two signals with one transistor: I don't have equipment to test it but would like to know at least theoretically what could I expect: I want to mix two signals and get some kind of mixed output, it doesn't matter how they are combined, just a random mix of the two signals. So I though about injecting a signal into the Collector, a different signal into the Emitter and see what could come out of the Base terminal: I expect a very weak signal obviously since I am using the transistor not really as an amplifier but as some kind of mixing signal system, but the weak signal should be some kind of mix between the two signals injected into the Collector and Emitter, using the Base as an Output. Would it work ? Could I expect to see some kind of mixing of the Signals ? Thanks for any advice or ideas...