losfomot

If they break the contaminated water into Hydrogen and Oxygen (for example, by electrolysis)... would those gases be contaminated?

I also know that many people are not a fan of omnipresence, but it seems to me that all of the scientists that believe everything must have a cause reject the one conclusion that is out there. I honestly do not know how people could be so closed minded that they would not accept this conclusion.

Because I can't accept your exceedingly unlikely idea of an individual called 'God' as an infallible truth... I am closed minded?

I accept the possibility of such a being... hell, anything's possible... even an ocean controlling leprechaun. I think I am quite open minded actually. 'Closed minded'-ness to me is someone who 'believes' in one thing (an omnipotent, omnipresent God, for example) to the exclusion of any other possibility.

If disbelieving in a truth is a choice, then believing in that same truth must necessarily also be a choice. One can choose to believe, or to not believe. q.e.d.

 

It happens all the time. Everyone does it, it's part of the human condition.

What do you mean by 'disbelieving in a truth'?

Can you give me an example?

I still think the problem is in the definition... for example:

Your best friend says to you "John, I don't know how it happened, and I know it sounds crazy, but there is an elephant in my garden... I need your help... you gotta believe me!"

and you grab him by the shoulders and shake him... maybe give him a slap and say "ok, I believe you... calm down and lets go check it out... and my names not John!"

And maybe you do believe him... but really what you mean by believe is that you think it is possible, and you are going give him the benefit of the doubt and proceed on the assumption that he is telling the truth even though you know very well that there could be (and probably is) something else going on here.

In other words, you don't truly believe. You don't truly disbelieve either.

However, followers of God do believe... at least they will tell you they do... and they are not supposed to be saved if they don't truly believe.

This kind of belief is what I am talking about.

Yes, you have a choice to believe that your friend is lying or telling the truth, but it is not true belief. You will not drop to your knees, hold your head and say 'I don't understand' when you walk into the garden and there is no elephant after all.

I think it depends on the definition of belief/believe and I'm not looking for a dictionary quote, but what a person actually means when they say 'I believe....'. Belief is also given context by what follows it. My concept of a house might be four walls and a roof, while someone else's might be a circular building (one continuous wall) and a roof. We could both say that we believe in houses but ultimately mean different things.

Sure... but if you were to test that theory, in this specific case (believing in god), by asking the believers what they actually mean when they say, for example, 'I believe.... that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Saviour'... I think you will get a similar definition from all (or at least most) of them.

Have you ever heard of people being willfully ignorant of something? Of not knowing something because they don't want to know?

Sure... but that is different from willfully believing in something.

I might be willfully ignorant about where meat comes from, or rather how it gets from there to my plate... but I do not willfully believe that meat grows from a tree.

How can one 'choose' to believe?

In all honesty, I would probably jump on the chance to really believe in a god... saviour... heaven and hell... afterlife... heck, everlasting life! What a deal! Sign me up! But it just doesn't work that way... does it? You can't just decide one day that you believe Jesus Christ is your Lord and Saviour... your God. You can't just 'choose to believe'.

What it comes down to for me (i think) is the word believe (or belief). Someone who says that they believe, means that they hold this thing to be the truth... there is no halfway... there is no 'level' or extent of belief... there is no scale from 1 to ten how much you believe... there is simply 'I believe' or 'I don't believe'. 'Believe', to me, is a strong word... the strongest, especially when used in this context... and I just don't see how this is something someone can 'choose' to do.

There are some people who 'believe' in the possibility or even probability that there is a God (even a specific God)... does that make them believers?... I don't think so.

Am I wrong about this?

How so?

 

You can believe it to different extents.

Different extents? Care to test that definition with a religious person?

-Excuse me sir, I notice you are a christian... how much do you believe in christianity?

-Pardon me?.. How much? What do you mean?

-I mean do you believe a little?... or a lot?.. To what extent do you believe?

-I don't really know what you mean... I simply believe.

-No, no... humour me here... on a scale from 1 to 10... rate your belief level.

-I would have to say 10... if it was any less, it wouldn't be belief now would it?

For example... I asked 'A Tripolation' (earlier in this thread) what he thought the word 'belief' meant...

Something that you hold to be true, regardless of the evidence for, or against, said belief.

It might mean you think it's the rock solid truth, but really believing something does not equal knowledge. You might object to the word merely in reference to belief but that is not inaccurate.

I agree.

Well I think they should at least ask questions and see if the dogma their beliefs are rooted in have any connection with reality....

I agree. However, this should be done before stating that they 'believe'. Questioning their beliefs after the fact is akin to not believing. If you are investigating the truth of your religion... well then it can't really be a 'belief' can it? Your obviously not sure about it. A 'possibility' maybe. It could be true, but maybe not.

And with your comment on atheism, that response wasn't about converting anyone to atheism, it was about open-mindedness, it's not that over time people need to never believe god exists, its just that people need to be able to look at their beliefs as merely beliefs, and accept there may be flaws in them and be open to new ideas.

merely beliefs? A belief cannot be merely.

If you believe something, that means it is the rock solid truth. There is no accepting there may be flaws or being open to new ideas. You either believe in something or you don't.

Saying...

its just that people need to be able to look at their beliefs as merely beliefs, and accept there may be flaws in them and be open to new ideas.

is like saying people should be agnostic... or atheist.

White blood cells.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_field_entoptic_phenomenon

Makes sense to me.

A glass sphere 1' in diameter is designed to withstand an external pressure of 10 atmospheres., or a vacuum of -10 atmospheres. It is then evacuated to -9.99 atmospheres and placed in a visible water colume. How far down must it sink before imploding? And when it does implode, will the gas bubble being released represent the size of the sphere, or the .1 atmosphere of gas in the sphere?

I do not believe the question is answerable, as it is impossible to have a negative atmospheres (or am I wrong). Perhaps you meant that the sphere is capable of holding a vacuum of 0.01 atmospheres rather than -10 atmospheres? And that it is then evacuated to 0.02 atmospheres? If so, I believe the answer is that the sphere will drop 10 cm before imploding. As for the size of the bubble being released, do you mean when the sphere implodes? Or when the bubble reaches the surface? Either would be less than the 1' diameter that the sphere was.

We've all seen an apple , an orange , a tomato , etc . So , what is the purpose of these in the bigger picture of the evolution of plants ? I know the fruit contains the seeds to make a new plant , what is the purpose of the rest of the apple , orange or tomato ?

It is attractive to animals. Animals eat the fruit, and then poop it out. The seeds have now been transported to a new location where it has ample fertilizer and new ground to take root in.

Also... if the fruit simply drops to the ground without being eaten by an animal... it is ideally shaped to roll away from the tree (on a slope for example) where it will eventually rot, thereby providing additional nutrients for the seeds.

Ringer makes some great points... I'd love to hear a response from GX.

With a logical, rational, caring individual like me, it should be a piece of cake to be my friend. However, I'm strongly against society's idiotic gender stereotypes -- this is where associating with me in public can be a bit embarrassing. I wish non-disabled adult humans beings would stop acting like immature hormonal teenagers.

I do not mean to offend, but....

I only know you through this thread and it's parent, but you don't seem logical, rational or caring to me.

Whether or not he's trying to pull my strings, I've seen his behavior around children. He clearly *does* treat girls "better" than boys. Like I said, this appears -- at least to me -- as a vicious victim-perpetrator cycle. Dad treated his sister better than him, so he is going to treat his daughter better than his son.

 

 

 

I've shown him evidence. He shuts me up by saying cruel things like "I don't care", "no one talks about these things", "this is not a healthy conversation", "moving on", "no one gives a ****", etc. etc.

You have not shown any evidence of the assertions you have made on this thread despite repeated requests... so I highly doubt you've shown your friend any evidence either.

He is not being cruel, just honest and probably frustrated that you keep bringing up a topic and a viewpoint that he disagrees with, and doesn't care about.

This seems all quite off-topic but...

1. My friend is a macho heartless jerk who gives into his desire to impress women. He takes out his frustration on me because I'm warm-hearted and compassionate -- qualities the cause him to view me an easy target.

In all honesty, it sounds like you are jealous that he is giving his attention to girls rather than you. It is possible that his frustrations arise as a result of your attitude. I don't know how bad your condition affects you, but I imagine it could be quite challenging to maintain a friendship with you.

2. This jerk is part of the victim-perpetrator cycle. He seems to enjoy the tormenting others with the same discrimination he suffered as a child. He tells me that he wants to have a family of two older daughters and one younger son. He says he'll give the daughters all the protective treatment while neglecting his son and "toughening him" up.

It sounds like he may be saying this just to get under your skin. Whatta jerk.

3. He believes the stupid gender-bias myth that a little girl needs more protection than a little boy of the same age because "she is more likely to be raped than him" [his own words]. For perpetuating such irrational gender stereotypes, I lose a LOT of respect I would otherwise have for him. Prior to adolescence, boys are just as -- if not more -- likely to be raped than girls.

If you had some evidence, you could prove him wrong and change his mind.

4. He is also paranoid about society perceiving him as gay. When he hangs out with me, he always comments on how my mannerisms are effeminate. He is worried-sick that if he hangs out with a 'girly-man' like me ["girly" by society's and his definition] that people will think me and him are a gay couple. First and foremost, I disagree with him that I'm effeminate; I maybe unmasculine but there is nothing about me that is feminine. Society seems to equate lack of masculinity with effeminacy and also equates this "effeminacy" with "gayness". These are irrational stereotypes. Personally, I don't care if society sees me as lady-like or homosexual. What's his problem? I don't understand.

It may be a stereotype, but I disagree that it is irrational. In my experience, a man acting 'unmasculine' or 'effeminate' is usually gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

5. His desire to impress women really affects me negatively. Me and him sometimes visit clubs and lounges and he attempts to impress the ladies. He blames me for his lack of ability to get those women. He say my effeminacy causes these ladies to think I'm a "goof ball" and because he is hanging out with me, they don't "give him a second look". First of all, I don't care what those ladies think. I go only to accompany my friend, not to pick up gals. I'm not going to change my "lack of manliness" just so this imbecile can get laid. He should accept me for who I am.

Yes, or find a new friend.

So just WHY do I continue to associate with this piece of garbage? Well, I have Asperger's syndrome and he is one of the few people I'm friends with at all. Also, I must give him credit for introducing me to new people, giving me a social life, and expanding my social circle. Other than that, however, he is nuisance.

This sounds exactly like the terrible and abusive relationships you are trying to avoid by staying single... Except you aren't gettin any. You've chosen to experience (or at least focus on) all the negative parts of a relationship while denying yourself the good parts.

Take a chance, my friend.

Ironically, my friend was traumatized by this. He has a sister a couple of years older than him. From his earliest memories, he recalls his sister scratching him on the face, making him cry. To this day, he still has scars on his face from those scratches. According to him, his father always took her side and blamed him whenever she physically-attacked him. From what he tells me, his dad has this strong irrational belief that a girl-child is good luck and should never be made upset under any condition. Mom was impartial, though.

It sounds like your friend had a unique experience growing up, quite outside the average experience. It certainly puts him at the extreme end of all the points you've been making. And yet he got married/(or girlfriended). I will venture a guess that he will soon find peace with the girl he is with, or another girl to hang out with (despite your warnings) and you will stop hearing him complain... unless and until that relationship breaks up as well. Regardless, the point is, your friend is an extreme example of all the points you have been making, and he didn't end up being a woman hating rapist/murderer. (sorry, this relates more to the parent thread here)

As for your personal choice to stay single and childless... it's probably for the best.

Funny thing is...that IS my justification for belief. So. Where do you go from here? Are you going to attempt to tell me that my reason for believing in a deity isn't my reason?

I will try not to attempt to tell you that.

I don't really care what you think is justifiable and isn't. It is my reason. No more, no less.

Please don't take offense. I am just trying to understand. If you really feel that way, then don't reply.

Justification is a purely subjective term. It justifies my belief, in my opinion. And that's all that matters. It's really not that hard a concept.

I wouldn't say it is purely subjective.

Can you expand on it a little for me?... The fact that you would be 'terribly sad if this is all there was' is simply not a justification for believing in a God... never mind a particular one. There must be more to it. Were you raised as a christian? Did someone influential to you introduce you to the bible? Or did you just come across it one day and decide, all on your own, 'wow! this is such an amazing story, it must be true!'

It seems wholly plausible to me that out there there exists an entity that is so far beyond us that "God" would be an applicable term. Very plausible, given the size of the universe.

Plausible is a long stretch from belief... a long stretch. And your belief is specific to Jesus Christ, not "an entity that is so far beyond us that "God" would be an applicable term".

Perhaps it is the word 'belief' that is subjective to you. What does it mean to you?

I just think that it would be a terribly sad if this is all there was.

This is a good reason to hope... but it doesn't justify belief.

And Jesus' words are quite agreeable to me. His moral code is something that is quite beautiful.

You read a story and it appealed to you... this still does not seem to justify belief.

And the beauty of his moral code seems questionable to me... but that is for another thread.

I do not justify my belief in a god or gods. belief by its nature is something you choose to or not to do.

I disagree completely. I cannot simply choose to believe something... and then I believe!... it just doesn't work that way. I can choose to pretend to believe (maybe in the hope that the belief will become (or at least seem) real later on).

I would guess that most people's belief stems from an upbringing that has hammered the idea into their head. Others may have some significant event happen in their lives that they attribute to a higher power's intervention.

Personally, I have some ideas... but BELIEF ?... no.

On reflection, calling this a "goofy idea" is IMO rather unfair. It must have been from ideas like this that the German coding machine Enigma was developed. This machine was producing coded messages during WWII that were almost undecipherable. The hint definitely gave it away - so much so that I probably would not have produced the answer without it.

My apologies to fisherman... I did not mean it in a bad way... it is rather a neat puzzle... what I should have said was:

'It is most definitely not related to math'

Then I'm screwed. Looking forward to seeing the solution!

It is most definitely a 'goofy idea'. The answer is 15. and his hint completely gives it away.

The word is always foolishness to the non believer.

I wonder why?

At the age of 10, most girls are stronger than boys

Are you quoting a fact? You are saying that, at the age of 10, on average, girls are stronger than boys? Do you have references for this or is this just your personal opinion, formed:

because girls physically-develop faster than boys.

Society strongly enforces this pro-girl sexism despite scientific proof that the average girl is no more weak, innocent, well-behaved, delicate, vulnerable, or sensitive than the average boy of the same age.

As far as mentally or emotionally, you may be right. But physically, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are there studies showing that the average 10 year old girl is as physically strong as a 10 year old boy? Where is this 'scientific proof'?

You believe that the way we treat women differently is proper for adults, but not for children... when do you think the boys are going to learn this? Do you think that if they grow up learning to treat girls the same as boys (and seeing adults treat them the same) they will suddenly change their ways at the magic age of 13.. or 18... or 25? Of course not. If you are brought up to learn that girls are treated and should be treated the same as boys, then you will become an adult that believes that women should be treated the same as men.

Pro-girl definitely. I'd rather be a physically-healthy uneducated individual who spends time at home being taken care of by the men of society, than someone who is forced from the time of conception to be strong, macho, pain-tolerant, dirt-tolerant, and independent. Girls often experience the former, while boys usually experience the latter..

I do not believe the average individual would agree with your choice. Especially after some life experience.

I believe it is roughly 7.3 degrees.

Not a mathematician... could be wrong.

AFAIK, when matter collapses into a Black Hole a wormhole is formed and a new Universe is created with a Big Bang on the other side of it.

 

Our Big Bang is therefore thought to be located inside a Black Hole in another parent Universe.

How does Hawking radiation factor in with this theory? if we are radiating energy into our parent universe, how would we detect that?

hmmm... I see a cool parallel between hawking radiation and dark energy... As our universe gets bigger, the black hole in our parent universe is getting smaller. As the BH gets smaller it radiates energy faster and faster which means the black hole gets smaller faster over time... just like our universe is getting bigger faster (accelerating expansion). But the mass/energy from our end is just spreading out, not disappearing... just some thoughts.

Who do you think would win in a fight between Satan and the Anti-Christ?

I thought the anti-Christ would be Satan impersonating Christ... or at least someone on Satan's behalf.?!?