Haezed

Well yeah, because she's gone now. But is there anything to suggest it would be harmful in the long run? Has Anne Coulter's career been harmed by saying ignorant and even deliberately provocative things? No. That IS her career, and she's gotten quite wealthy doing it. This is just free speech and the free market at work. Why do I know who Paris Hilton is? Why does Donald Trump have a TV show? Why is professional wrestling a thriving industry? Why was The 300 so successful? Because dumb, offensive, and pushy gets attention, that's why, and attention sells products.

It is not simply ignorances that makes her accuse the United States government of killing thousands, reshaping the skyline of its major cities and almost taking out the US capital. We are talking about a certain mindset which is dangerous and should be condemned, not censored, when encountered.

Well yeah, because she's gone now. But is there anything to suggest it would be harmful in the long run? Has Anne Coulter's career been harmed by saying ignorant and even deliberately provocative things? No. That IS her career, and she's gotten quite wealthy doing it. This is just free speech and the free market at work. Why do I know who Paris Hilton is? Why does Donald Trump have a TV show? Why is professional wrestling a thriving industry? Why was The 300 so successful? Because dumb, offensive, and pushy gets attention, that's why, and attention sells products.

I was so disappointed in The 300. That could have been a great movie if they had given it a treatment like Saving Private Ryan, Letters from Iwo Jimo, Apollo 13 and other historically based shows which attempt to be truthful to the gist of the subject matter.

In any event, I would think 9/11 conspiracy theories would be particularly taboo in a science board about politics. Not only was she harming America by spreading such lies (which can then be spread throughout the mid-east) but she is an idiot because she thinks she's a scientist when she is not.

She's gone from The View but she'll be back. It's become taboo to question patriotism but I do question hers when she spreads such a harmful lie that can be picked up elsewhere.

I offer three options.

 

Option One.

 

You grab your gun - make sure its loaded and the safety off and bravely march forth to confront the EB's.

First, I wouldn't march. I would try to call 911 and/or set off an alarm IF I could. It depends on the situation. The first house I bought was configured so that we were all downstairs and I could likely attempt gather my family into one room, train the muzzle of the shotgun at the door and wait for the guy to make a move. My current house has the kids upstairs. Where do I hear the sound? If it is upstairs with the kids, I might act very different than if it is in my kitchen. From that point, I could train a shotgun to keep him from getting upstairs while my wife made the call and set off our alarm.

There are an infinite other possible ways this may play out but its MY FAMILY and you have no right to tell me the best way to defend MY home. Nor do the police.

Option Two

 

You show yourself - acting totally subserviently - and give them everything they want.

Statistically, this might be the best bet in many cases but, again, I'll defer to the choice of the individual involved in an impossible situation. Does he sense the perp is on crank? Has there been a history of progressive incidents to indicate someone is targetting them? There are a number of facters which might go into whether I act this way or take other actions.

Option Three

 

You set off a really loud alarm - potent enough to be heard for two city blocks, and painful to the ears of anyone in the house. You try to stay back, but if caught, act totally subserviently.

These options are not mutually exclusive. For example, You could combine 1 and 3. Set off the alarm and use your gun to wait for the perp to show himself.

Now print off these options, take them to your local cops and ask their opinion.

I would rather not embarrass myself because the police know that there are an infinite number of ways something like this can go down.

The talk of the IRA is largely irrelevent; the gun laws in the UK (and N Ireland) are so tight that many of their attacks were with bombs and most were with baseball bats.

John, the IRA example was brought up as a counterexample to my example of how the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto put up a good fight with fascism. I agree it is largely irrelevent.

Case in point, the ratings for The View went up once Rosie starting spouting conspiracies.

Temporarily.

Limbaugh is full of wacky conspiracy theories. Broadcasters hire them because they're crazy. It's called ratings!

All talking heads villify the opposition but a 9/11 conspiracy theory is in a class by itself. It feeds into a common perception held in many countries and I do question the patriotism or intelligence of anyone who spouts this drivil without first looking at the evidence.

And Rosie had a couple of great reasons for being fired, not the least of which was spouting 9/11 nutcase conspiracy theories.

What talking head doesn't?

What talking head doesn't spout 9/11 nutcase conspiracy theories? About all of them except Rosie.

you realise the distinction is an artificial one? if you agreed with the IRAs struggle, then they'd be a bunch of civillians mass-resisting. if not, then they're a bunch of terrorists.

Exactly, which makes my point.

I'm not sure if it's a leap or not, but I feel it too. I think they're seeing a corrollation between our approach to war and gun ownership. We seem like a bunch of trigger happy rednecks that dress up in camo and go to war to play with our testosterone toys, I suspect.

I see this as a form of close minded bigotry.

Of course, when you see some of our soldiers and you hear them talk, tell their story or whatever, you see a completely different picture. These are some impressive folks. Maybe they're just playing to the cameras, or putting on a good front, but they come across quite professional to me. Courteous and intelligent.

How many of our Eurpoean friends ever see that picture, I wonder.

As a non-American, the gun control thing affects me, because I have twice visited the USA, and will probably visit again more than once. I would like to know that if I walk the streets of an American town, I will not be shot.

We are happy to have you here but you'll just have to deal with our laws.

As I have said before, the crux of the whole thing is the simple fact that the USA, with relatively lax gun laws, has a murder rate much higher than any other OECD country.

Maybe Pangloss' "stop snitching" thread illustrates other dynamics in play. I heard one talking head say on CNN that in some neighborhoods the "clear" rate on homicides is in single didgets in many of these neighborhoods where cooperation with police is minimal.

If those gun laws were tightened up, including raids by police on criminal hang-outs, to confiscate any illegal weapons, we can expect with a high degree of surety, that the murder rate wil go down.

A mere assertion, nothing more.

In other words, tight gun laws save lives.

Nice bumper sticker slogan but not much else.

I don't know why Trump would have any special knowledge as to the reasons for her departure, and he has a really good reason for saying that she was fired.

And Rosie had a couple of great reasons for being fired, not the least of which was spouting 9/11 nutcase conspiracy theories.

(I can't believe I actually spent time discussing this, lol)

Because you're an addict?

I realize this reply is tardy, but I'm a bit shocked by this post. Not only do I completely disagree with this reasoning, but I'm surprised this "logic" was let stand by most of this community.

My silence was not meant as consent. I preferred to focus on the more serious statements.

Trump said she was fired. You may be right that this isn't what happened "exactly" yet I think she was pointed in the general direction of the door.

I wonder in what context? This has nothing to do with him or his comment. Or is this the white man's fault as well?

To the contrary, the gist of Sharpton's comment was that Imus was canned for saying ho and that it was time to take rappers on for using words like B**** and ho.

Next question: Did the canning (or caning) of Imus, influence Rosie's departure? Trump says she was fired.

One question that vexes me is why so many not from America care so deeply about our internal gun laws? Don't get me wrong; I want all POVs and want to hear from everyone. There is almost an emotional tone to the debate, however, which makes me think that some think our guns laws prove something about America's "high testosterone" national character. Is that too much of a leap?

The idea that you need guns to oppose an oppressive government is just as ridiculous.

There are many ways in our system of government to oppose an oppressive government. 99.999% of the protection comes for separation of powers, checks and balances and all of that basic stuff.

However, if worse ever came to worse, as it did for the Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto, guns are a check. You ignore the demonstrable fact that even with a few guns but with brains and guts, the Jews held off the Germans for far longer than anyone would have thought. If they had been armed, the result would have been the same, but far more costly to the Germans.

In fact, I wonder what would have happened had the Jewish population of Europe been generally armed during the holocaust. I know one thing: Hitler's first step would have been to make gun ownership for Jews a crime.

The IRA felt they had an oppressive government. Whether they were right or wrong, the fact is that they faced very strict gun laws and still managed to get enough weapons to carry out all sorts of highly destructive actions.

Sure but imagine how much worse it would have been if guns had been more commonly available. Also, I'm not talking about a terrorist sect in a country but the use by guns as a basis for mass resistance.

If America got an oppressive government, and had to establish a resistance movement, they would have no problem getting all the weapons they needed illegally.

All the weapons they needed? That's quite an assumption. It sure didn't work that way for the Jews of Warsaw.

Free availability of guns is an unmitigated disaster.

Strawman: No one argued for free availability of guns. I'm all for background checks.

The sickening part of this is the commercialization of an obviously unhealthy and downright frightening trend; I am not for censorship but I would like Congress to haul those responsible to capital hill for a "Big tobacco" type lineup. Will the Dems have the nerve, or the desire to shift from Bush bashing, to take this issue head on while they still can?

Thank you Pangloss for brining this to my attention; this "movement's" implications are absolutely chilling

Guns are merely a more efficient way of killing people. The reason we are allowed to bear arms is for the people to defend themselves against their government. Which means that the people should be able to own any weapon the government has.

What could a lightly armed citizenry possibly do against a superior force complete with modern armor?

Warsaw Ghetto Uprising

the first civilian, urban uprising in German-occupied Europe, the heroic revolt begun by the Jewish Fighting Organization was joined by the remaining ghetto population. It was the longest lasting Jewish uprising lasting from April 19 through May 16, 1943. Of negligible military value, the revolt became a symbol of the indomitableness of the human spirit.

At the outbreak the ZOB consisted of about 600 members. However, thousands of Jews spontaneously joined the uprising once it had started. The Germans had the most modern military weapons, including tanks. The ghetto fighters had a few guns, mainly pistols which turned out to be useless, some hand grenades and most effectively Molotov cocktails (glass bottles filed with gasoline).The fighters had been severely hampered by lack of arms. They had tried with very limited success to obtain weapons from the Polish underground, the Armia Krajowa (AK, Home Army).

 

The leadership of the uprising realized that to attack the Germans directly would be suicide; therefore it was decided to attack at the crossings of ghetto streets from the rooftops and attics of surrounding houses. Underground bunkers were prepared and stocked with provisions.

 

The ghetto was surrounded with a guard armed with a machine gun placed every 25 feet. The main German forces entered the ghetto. At two places they were attacked by the Jewish fighters and retreated. Tanks were brought in but these were hit with Molotov cocktails and set on fire. The fact that the enemy retreated at the first encounter evoked jubilation among the Jews.

Now, imagine the result if even 1 in 3 families had light arms;

At least nobody has brought up the old line about "If you outlaw guns then only outlaws will have them" so I guess the message has got through about that.

This will be true in America for years to come (period on my laptop, is still not working); Criminals will assume that lawabiding citizens are now defenseless but it will take years before it even becomes difficult for them to find guns;

The recent case is a bit different; here we have a guy who is not really connected to the criminal element in our society going to a gun store for a gun and, regretablly, getting one despite the history of mental illness; he shouldn't have gotten a gun as it was but I don't think you are going to keep one away from an intent killer for a long long long long LONG long time

Did you see Anderson Cooper last night? They discussed the Busta Rymes case:

Take the case of Busta Rhymes.

The hip-hop star has refused to cooperate with police investigating the slaying of his bodyguard Feb. 5 outside a Brooklyn studio where Rhymes was recording a video with performers such as Missy Elliott and Mary J. Blige. Police say that although Rhymes and as many as 50 others may have seen the shooting, no one came forward — an echo of the silence that followed the unsolved murders of rappers Tupac Shakur, the Notorious B.I.G. and Run-DMC's Jam Master Jay.

 

It's the code of the street: To be a credible rapper, you have to know when to shut up.

 

"Under pressure, I lie for ya, die for ya," Lil' Kim once rapped. Now she's in a federal jail in Philadelphia for failing to tell a grand jury what she knew about some friends involved in a shooting.

 

Rhymes' silence in the death of Israel Ramirez seemed to puzzle New York's seen-it-all police commissioner, Ray Kelly, an ex-Marine, career NYPD cop and U.S. Customs chief. "Your employee is murdered in front of you," he told reporters, so "you'd think he might want to talk to the police."

 

Not necessarily, says David Kennedy, director of the Center for Crime Prevention and Control at John Jay College of Criminal Justice in New York. "There's such animosity toward the police in some urban communities that even people who aren't afraid, and who hate crime, still feel cooperating is something good people don't do," Kennedy says. "That's the Busta Rhymes story. He has nothing to fear. He just doesn't want to talk. His reputation would take a dive if he did."

 

The code of silence, he says, "is breaking out in a way we've never seen before."

 

Saunders agrees: "It's a movement, that's what it is — a stop snitching movement."

The man's faithful employee is gunned down and he won't even talk to the police. Cooper had on Al Sharpton and the partner of the slain bodyguard (and mother of his child). For once I agreed with Sharpton who condemned the practice and is planning protests. The girlfriend was especially puzzled. She said that Busta loved her partner and, in fact, there is a homage to him at the end of one of Busta's songs. Yet, he's not talked to police.

Sharpton actually referenced the Imus affair which shows that some good may come from the Imus afair.

Nope. I'm unelectable by either party.

I do support Afghanistan and Gulf War actions in the context of accepting that we are not isolationist. Even as an isolationist, I still support Afghanistan. But my ideas about isolationism came directly from 9/11 and its aftermath.

 

Admittedly, it's more of a temper tantrum on my part. I get so fed up with the one way finger pointing. People judging America out of context.

 

I was watching a program last night on North Korea. They went over the concentration camps that have been up and running for decades. The fear instilled in those people is creepy. Over and over again, they all said the same thing "Our dear leader", "Our great general" - straight up "god" worship. The humanitarian issues their are ridiculously bad.

 

But, we're hated. Gitmo is a bigger deal to people than what is going on in N. Korea. I know it's been an issue in the past, and I'm sure it's brought up from time to time - but Gitmo is portrayed as the same thing. Folks, it's not even close. Where's all the outrage on N. Korea? China?

 

Terrorists actually kill in the name of god. No dots to connect. No intellectual explanation to connect everything together - they straight up, no bones about it, kill and rule for god. Proudly.

 

But our own people criticize us about religion and war - having to stretch imaginations and make an intellectual case to support it, and take up for those who actually DO kill for god. It blows my mind.

 

How can people be so knit picky about our "christian" heritage that barely makes a dent in our laws in the least - but take sides with those who use god to rule and manipulate innocent people (poisoning the minds of little kids) to kill for them? I really don't get it.

 

So, I would really like to see my country take the hint and grant them their wish. They bitched when we weren't involved. They bitch when we are involved - and step it up to hate and add dozens of countries to the list. Hell, let's just go back to letting them bitch - only. What's the point? They just concentrate on the bad, and don't give any recognition for the good.

 

They're so smart. Let them deal with it. We're so stupid, so why try?

 

Like I said...a temper tantrum.

You have encapsulated my frustrations as well. You have china and russia thrwarting a solution to genocide in Darfur so they can cozy up to oil-rich Sudan and we are the bad guys?? NPR had an episode a few days ago about forced abortions in China yet it makes a blip on the radar while Gitmo is all anyone can see.

I agree that we should hold ourselves to a higher standard but I don't give the rest of the world the right to be hypocrits. I really wish we could safely disengage from a world gone mad but that's not possible.

No. I don't believe in shucking responsibility. We're there and need to finish. My comments are about after Iraq. It's also my preferred method of dealing with middle east ever since 9/11. The middle east deserves to be shunned. Let them prove some value and worth to the world before anyone associates themselves with them.

 

Their governments say one thing - with their hands out - and their citizens say another. Then their governments lie and distort reality and their citizens become a pool to recruite resistance - resistance that has been "redirected" toward America.

 

So, until they can get control of themselves and their government, we have no interest there. Kind of like doing business with a child...

I thought you supported the Afghan and Gulf War I actions?