Cyclonebuster

The proof is in the video! See you trolls later bye!

this isn't a blog. this is a forum.

 

and the mods are more likely to get rid of you as you are the one breaking the rules.

Blog forum what ever! Can you kindly go away? You are being very disruptive.

you were the one who said 10's of thousands. so the lol is on you mate.

 

you obviously don't understand basic physics(or even mathematic or logical arguement)

 

you're being moronic. grow up and prove to me that there is something resembling intelligence on your side of the arguement.

Hey mods can you get this guy off of me he is disrupting my blog here and calling me names!

well, with regards to the tens of thousands of ships,

 

1/ the have nowhere near the surface area of the pipes being proposed here. your proposal would cause several orders of magnitude more drag than all the ships in the world combined.

 

2/ the ships are not anchored to the sea floor so have a much smaller drag force

 

3/ there are just as many ships going in the other direction which cancels out the effect.

 

read my post above. follow the advice. maybe learn something.

I am sure there are more than a few thousand ships world wide!LOL!

I am sure the props create more drag!LOL!

even if they are going in the other direction the drag from the props are still there.lol!

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So tell me Mr.Insane_Alien how is it that it doesn't work in the case of our shipping but with the tunnels its does? You saw the video and it works. I didn't see the velocity of the stream I set it in slow down any. Did you?

Why?

it will not speed back up to its origional speed though. because as it speeds up by viscous mixing with the rest of the stream it slows the rest of the stream down. not only that but the rest of the stream has been slowed down by viscous friction with the outside of the tunnels.

 

and the fact you are extracting energy in the form of electricity just worsens the problem.

 

and you expect this to increase the speed of the current? it really is ridiculous. this is why i asked if you are being deliberatly obtuse as it is quite inconcievable that you are unable to understand what is being said.

 

you haven't even got a consistent idea first you want to cool down a massive volume of water, then it turns out you want to speed up the gulf stream and then you introduce generating energy from it as well.

 

heres what you should do before you post again.

 

1/draft a consistent and coherent idea

 

2/think about what i have said to you in this thread

 

3/ rethink your idea

 

4/ redraft it.

 

5/ make a post.

 

because so far i haven't seen anything other than 'it'll work it'll work' and if thats the limit of your arguements then its pointless as your not going to listen to anyone.

Then why don't the 10s of thousands of ships crossing the gulfstream daily slowing the gulfstream down. Don't you think if that was happening the environmentalsits would be screaming " Your slowing the gulfstream down"? It speeds back up again that's why you have the whole Earth acting upon it!

i never called you any names.

 

and yes, all the water that enters them will come out the otherside but that doesn't change the fact that it will slow the current down.

 

you can't avoid it. but you seem determined just to wave it off (even saying that the stream will get faster without you putting more energy in).

 

there isn't much more to say and this is just degenerating into you saying 'it'll work' and me repeating the reasons i have gave for why it won't.

 

there isn't anything left to say, you have been give plenty of reasons for why this won't work at all like you think it will but you haven't came up with a single arguement to support your claims. its ridiculous.

You implied it by asking the question. Look at the video and you will see the red food coloring exiting the installed venturi at the exit. It comes out slower yes but it speeds back up once it enters back into the current. You can see it clearly in the video. The forces that create the gulfstream current in the first place are still there and so the water will speed back up again. Meanwhile we just tapped that KE for good use.

How about quitting the name calling and lets stick to the issues. The articles clearly state the stream is slowing because of the warming climate. All the water that enters the tunnels will exit the tunnels unless you blocked it off which I am not proposing here.Even if you did block it off the water would just go around them.There is plenty of room for the water to go elsewhere.

there are so many ways i can explain this to you. i'm going to make it as simple as possible.

 

you have a current or water, you put a big massive barrier in its way(the pipes), you take a lot of energy out of the flow, the flow slows down. it isn't going to go at the same speed it was before the barrier.

 

it just isn't going to happen.

 

i don't get why you can see this.

 

especially with your point of trying to increase the velocity of the gulf stream.

 

to use an analogy, say the gulf stream is a car. you are suggesting we speed up by putting the brakes on. see how this seems like a really bad idea for speeding it up? thats because it is.

 

same thing in your proposal except the car slowing down has more severe consequences than just the car gets slower. kind of like in the movie speed., the bus slows down and KABOOM! people die.

So lets say it slows down 50 percent. All you do is build 50 percent more tunnels.

yes, but when it exits the tube the velocity will decrease drastically. the end result is you end up with a lower volumetric flowrate than before you put in the tunnels.

 

you either put energy into the system to speed up the flow of water or you take energy out the system by slowing the flow of water.

 

you can't do both.

The energy is already there in the gulfstream. Once it exits the tunnel it will speed back up because of the gulfstream flow that bypasses the tunnel on the outside. The only things slowing the water down inside the tunnel is friction,the two 45 degree bends and the traveling screens which is nill because the tunnels are short and fat.

no, you won't. you can't extract energy AND increase flow. these are exact opposite scenarios.

If you narrow the opening by 1/4 the area the velocity increases.

Place these inside the venturi section of the tunnel and you can get more energy from them!

http://coet.fau.edu/?p=pilot

capn, by stopping the gulf stream(which is what would happen) he's actually preventing the redistribution of heat on a larger scale and focussing solely on a local redistribution.

Read the articles that is not what would happen on a cooling Earth. The stream would speed up not slow down.

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In any case, shifting heat around on the planet's surface does nothing to solve the problem of there being more thermal energy brought in than emitted. There's still the greenhouse effect to contend with. Besides, you will not lower the global mean temperature, just the temperature in a few locations. The heat does not vanish magically -- you're just redistributing it.

Since the tunnels also produce an enormous amount of hydroelectrical power from the KE in the gulfstream in cooling phase or non-cooling phase this helps to reduce the greenhouse effect since we would no longer need fossil fuels to generate electrical power along the Eastern seaboard.They can produce 13 trillion joules every 7 seconds.

1/ The tunnels prevent the gulfstream from stopping as it is stopping now due to the heating as it says in the articles.The tunnels cool the gulfstream which has the reverse effect and allows it to speed back up!

2/ Correct and that is what fossil fuels are doing now to the gulfstream. They are warming the planet and causing it to slow. This will cause major disruptions to global weather patterns while at the same time allow the corals to die due to coral bleaching.

3/ Maas migration will not occur if we restore the gulfstream to that of pre-industrial revolution conditions.

yes, but the cause of the catastrophic climate change is due to the disruption of thermohaline circulation. which is exacly what you would do in this scenario. not only that but you would also have to disrupt other currents in order to get the quantity of water necessary.

 

not tomention that your plan wouldn't fix global warming at all.

 

do you really think you can disrupt the largest oceanic current in the world and have no effect on the climates of other parts of the world?

Sure we would just be restoring the gulfstream flow to pre-industrial revolution conditions as it is already slowing due to the warming we are creating with fossil fuels. The warming direction we are headed now is insane.We need to cool things off a bit to prevent such things as the gulfstream stoppping due to the warming.Computer medeling of the tunnels can prove the tunnels will speed the gulfstream current back up again. They are just what the doctor ordered for our planets fever. You can say they are Earths aspirin.

notice how those articles say 'catastrophic climate change?' ie. the agree with me rather than you.

Notice in those articles the catastrophic climate change is due to a warming planet not a cooling planet.

can you post the links to where computers have said the breakdown of the gulf stream doesn't cause major ecological disruption?

There are articles that tell of the gulfstream slowing down due to the polar ice melting due to global warming. This idea with the tunnels reverse that trend by restoring the polar ice and reversing global warming.

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Melting glaciers shut down Gulf Stream in past

At the end of the last Ice Age —11.5 to 13 thousand years ago — the north Atlantic deep water circulation system that drives the Gulf Stream may have shut down because of melting glaciers that added freshwater into the north Atlantic Ocean over several hundred years, researchers say.

"For the first time, we have shown that realistic additions of glacial meltwater into the north Atlantic would have shut down north Atlantic deep water production over a period of a few hundred years, if the initial ocean circulation was somewhat weaker than that of today," said David Rind, lead author of the study and a senior climate researcher at the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies. The study appears in the current issue of Journal of Geophysical Research — Atmospheres.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/climate/2001-11-25-atlantic-circulation.htm

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Shutdown Of Circulation Pattern Could Be Disastrous, Researchers Say

ScienceDaily (Dec. 20, 2004) — CHAMPAIGN, Ill. — If global warming shuts down the thermohaline circulation in the North Atlantic Ocean, the result could be catastrophic climate change. The environmental effects, models indicate, depend upon whether the shutdown is reversible or irreversible.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/12/041219153611.htm

computer model says its a crap idea. and even a day would reuslt in severe disruption. how do they know this? because they've simulated a similar scenario based on a natural way the thermo-halinecycle that drives the gulf streame stopping due to dilution of the northern atlantic with fresh water.

 

basically, north america would be the least affected only experiencing severe droughts through summer, other places will be hit by frezzing temperatures, flooding, excessively hot temperatures, more droughts, larger hurricanes(holy crap isn't that what you're trying to stop.)

 

basically, what you are proposing is that we bugger up the rest of the worlds climate for the sake of florida.(which would still get massive hurricanes as the gulfstream is no longer cooling the atlantic).

 

yeah, not only technologically infeasible but also ecologically disasterous.

 

there are other methods more likely to work (as in the experiments, while small in scale had a measurable effect on the hurricanes). better to look into less disruptive methods.

NAH! They can be used to restore the climate to that prior to the industrial revolution. Computers can verify this!

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The fresh water caused it to stop because the ice melted. The Tunnels restore the ice the exact opposite of what you are saying.

your not doing any cooling though, your just spreading the heat around a bit more(and disrupting one of the currents that COOLS DOWN the equatorial regions).

 

removing the gulf stream would cause colder winters in the UK and scandinavian countries, the north eastern passage would close up locking many russian ports in ice all year round and disrupting trade routes. eco systems local to where the system is would be disrupted as well.

 

the flow of nutrients to most of the world oceans would also be disrupted causing some areas of the oceans to eutrophy and others to starve.

 

not to mention that it would cost trillions of dollars to build(and last time i checked the US has the largest debt in the world by an order of magnitude, not to mention the current economic crisis).

 

you'd be FAR better spending the money on upgrading buildings to survive hurricanes than this.

That all depends on how long they are kept in cooling phase or how much we want to regulate the SSTs. The temperature cooling they provide is variable anywhere between 70 to 90 degrees F and for any time duration. Computer modeling will help us out on this as to how how long and at what temp. we cool to. They can also restore the arctic ice that has been lost.

yes but you can't get it up there faster than the flow of water.

 

what you are proposing is we turn the flow of the gulf stream and increase it by ~35% then deliver it all to the one place for seven days.

 

also, have you ever though that this might(just might) have sever global reprocussions as the gulf stream is a pretty big player in the global redistribution of heat.

Well we are already warming it so what harm will it do by cooling it? It would Actually be cooler than this in the winter time anyways.

yes, but the gulf stream is a flow of warm water, below that where the water is cold ther isn't much of a current.

 

and you still have massive amounts of infrastructure and only about 5% of what would be required for a midget hurricane (as per my calculations above.)

The gulfstream flows to the North thoughout its entire depth at 6 mph I have already verified this with the Hurricane center.The water cools off the deeper you go. Near the bottom it is very cold near 32 degrees. The sun doesn't penetrate the surface adding warmth past the 500 foot mark very much.

i think you are underestimating the scale of a hurricane.

 

a midget hurricane is classed as having a radius of about 222km. now, and its roughly the top 100m of water that provides the heat for a hurricane. so, it would be resonable to assume that we need to replace say 30% of that water with colder water from below to dissipate the hurricane.

 

now thats a tremendous amount of water (14592 cubic kilometers of water http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28pi+*+222km%29^2+*30+m ).

 

and you have to provide the energy to move that. because its safe to assume that you will be using boats to do this and they will tend to move with the water so you'll have to have the engines going and a significant velocity. not only that but you'll need a fleet of thousands to get that volume up in 7 days.

 

EDIT, just to reemphasis, that is for a VERY SMALL hurricane. the ones that don't do too much damage.

No boats at all they are anchored to the sea bed! The gulfstream flows to the North at 6mph so the amout of cooling they provide is an area 40 miles wide by 110 miles long 400 feet deep per day.

Also installed within the tunnels are hydroelectrical generators to provide electrical power along the Eastern seaboard. We can get the power in either phase of operation from the tunnels. They have a cooling phase for weather modification/power generation and a non-cooling phase just for power generation.

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How much KE can we get from a 200 foot tall wall of water 40 miles wide traveling at 6mph?

yes, but not the ability to move a significant amount of water.

 

certainly not enough to defeat a hurricane.

In seven days they can cool the Gulfstream SSTs to 70 degrees from Key West Fla. to Cape Hatteras North Carolina! Any Hurricane crossing that cooler water will weaken prior to landfall.

well, the thing is, nature already does this and in far far greater quantities than we could do without spending all the money in the world(literally).

 

its a big part of the global currents.

Nature does it uncontrolled with these we have a way to control it.

umm, no not really.

They upwell much more cooler water than hurricanes do and are much more effective in cooling the SSTs which in turn cool the climate just as hurricanes do but quicker if we want them to.