julius2

I mean we don't have any inkling about any past time. The basic theory is that in previous time, there were many thousands of previous "times", looking very different to the universe we see today. Each "time" is spawned, and exists. The theory is that this formation process was getting old and was heading towards a terrible "death". The "death" would have been extremely painful for time. So the times shrank, compressing etc. until there was an incredible explosion (the BB). The times sit like vectors. One thing of note is that there are no actual observers of the BB. Unlike a light interference experiment where one can observe the light interference pattern. Likewise there are no actual observers of life being formed on earth, but we have fossils etc. to guide us. So everything is "up for grabs". To say that we come from a "thermal equilibrium" may not be strictly true as there are no actual observers. We are using a lot of subatomic physics in order to see right back. Quite valiant. The key will be in the recombination of matter of previous times, but the vastness of the current universe is a problem. According to theory, the current universe is both a recombination of a massive explosion and a transformation as well. The transformation is to get away from the spawning of times process. Away from linear vectors and towards a circular model.

Speculation: So one thing I observe is that everything is so "fresh and new". We are not hampered by anything from the past. This makes sense as according to modern theory everything came from an "infinite point" and evolved over billions of years. So in effect this is a new "time". The question is were there any previous "times". According to Roger Penrose (scientist), this universe is born from the collapse of a previous one. In effect there is an eternal cycle of expansion and contraction. The question is were there were any "earth worlds" previously in time? And if so were they more connected to that of previous times? For us we are not connected to previous time at all. We obviously inherit the previous history of this world through ancient monuments and written history and cave drawings. But we have no link per se to time previous to the formation of this world. And hence the search and theorizing about what did actually happen. Eg there were quarks and other subatomic particles per se. The theory is that this universe is a "rehash" of the "smashup" of previous times. Essentially like a "recycle garbage bin" in time. Yet we see ourselves as completely new. Wonderous, exciting etc. The theory is that previous times are reflected very well in this world. Through our stories, creativity, art etc. The theory is that there is no such thing as "creativity". Our minds are drawing upon a "mashup" of the past !!!

No, there is no galactic time that we are aware of. I guess I was just postulating on different models for A universe. As it stands it looks like we have one big planet with life on it and the rest stars and other planets. We may find life elsewhere but not yet. The two models mentioned appear to be one in which things develop in to spheres. I can think of a different time where things are triangular centric.

Looking for some intelligent thought about this: Been looking at online video's to update my knowledge about such things as the Big Bang, exploration in the universe, the concept of time etc. I come back to where we are now. I am aware there is ongoing space exploration going on but on the off chance that all of this becomes fruitless what is the summary? What we know for sure is this planet - the trees, ocean, animals, life, sun etc. We are secretly optimistic that we will "find" something that will extend the reign of humanity in time. But as the years pass and there is a lack of any new discovery we are left with how special this planet actually is. At the moment we have a leakage in human consciousness about looking to the outside universe and the vastness that entails. But if this option is closed off I predict we will take a closer look at our own planet. In this case we would have to consider the finiteness of resources such as oil and uranium which power us as people. As an intelligent species I imagine a gentle decline as we seek to use more sustainable resources. (Or there may be a more warlike history). And more global policies come in to play as nations work together to ensure continual survival. In which case eventually life on this planet will end. Humankind didn't get to conquer space and the rest of the universe. In which case what would happen now? Perhaps the universe stops expanding and then starts to contract into an interesting state. And then who knows what happens next, is another universe born again etc. And we are left wondering what this is all about. Luckily this is a big planet so we have a while to go. As an observer in the 21st century I wondering if anyone has thought of such an angle. Is there any intelligent thought about this? I am happy to be wrong about everything providing there is some logic. (If anyone knows of a better forum in which to post this please let me know.)

A general "rant" about Time Galatic Time A universe where different environments exist on different planets as opposed to different environments existing in different countries on 1 planet. Key to a galatic time is transportation. Previous to a true galatic time there would need to be exploration and discovery. And previous to this discovery and invention of transportation vehicles themselves. Galatic time would be a time / universe which would be kinder to travel in space. (Assuming space is the key medium for transportation). How would one travel between different planets / star systems? Would everything have to be close together? Would we travel at "light speed" to go to different star systems? My inspiration no doubt is the movie trilogy Star Wars. One Big World Time The current universe. Where we realise that going in to outer space becomes impractical. And so over time we realise that we live not on a relatively small planet but actually a big one. Different lands have different environments. If we want to go to the desert we go to the Middle East. If we want to go to a rainforest environment we might go to the Amazon. If we want to go to a snow environment we might go to Russia. In contrast to Galatic Time where you travel to different planets to experience different environments. Is there the chance to do more exploration or do we do more with what we've got? Are we a world wanting to live in a Galatic Time? Or are we happy with just staying on 1 planet? Is it our fate to age on this planet of ours? Is it enough? On another note, what if there were times previous to the BB. According to current science there was no before and everything that exists now comes from that one singularity. Would it help if we knew there were other times? (If this were possible). Surely we live in the here and now and our main task is survival?

Yes, I don't know. Are we able to communicate that far out? But I think we should make some efforts. People are leading the way. Only time will tell where we head with this.

I take your point. Since we have not properly explored the universe or are yet to do it better, we do not know if there is more life out there. If we say discover a "twin earth", we could then assign a life index to it. For a "twin earth" it might be = 2 billion + plant life + animal life. Then we would have a better balance of life in the universe...... It would be interesting to know where in such a world's development it is. For sake of argument let us assume it is an older world than ours. It would be very difficult to find another world in at a similar development to ours due to the short timeframe of our development , say 1000 - 2000 years over a very long time frame.

It is true it is difficult to make the necessary observations on exoplanets. I guess in nearby star systems for example Alpha Centauri and Sirius we have not found any life as yet. Stars would still have a life index of 0.0. I don't know what it would look like if there were civilisations on other exoplanets. Eg. Could we detect this? I guess my point is, we seem to have an abnormally high density of life here.... Why not be more evenly distributed?

Finding a virus like lifeform on a planet distant in the universe doesn't sound that exciting to me. Civilizations only! It's true that our universe exploration is relatively new. Who knows what we may discover given more time.....

Since this is the Speculations forum, I thought I might broach something speculative and quite unsubstantiated. One thing I noticed, and probably everyone else, that Earth appears to be the only place in the currently known universe to harbour life. If we were to put this in to an index, Earth = 8 billion + plant life + animal life. Quite a high number. But for stars index = 0.0. Plus all other discovered planets index = 0.0 We are like a massive black hole with everything else relatively insignificant in terms of a life index. Of course we wouldn't survive without the sun.... On another note, our quest is to discover life somewhere else in the universe. But space travel , the medium of transport is so "messy" for humans. We try to put ourselves in to spacecraft equipped with oxygen tanks to travel amazing distances. I wish there was something more "elegant". Perhaps wormholes close to Earth that transport us or link us to Other Worlds.

You don't think he has expertise?

I don't particularly like or dislike Elon. He is at times the richest man in the world. Good to see some future thought about where we are heading. It may not be good news but hopefully there are some "nice" times as well. For example the "peace years". Any thoughts on how many years we have left? Homo sapiens have been on earth 300,000 years it appears. I am guessing we might have 180,000 years left?? Who knows what happens to Industrialised Worlds..... What is the meaning of all this if we spend thousands of years developing into an Industrialised World only to decline again and live a slow death...

Well, just looking at recent history with the Industrial Revolution in the 1800s. And then numerous technological advances in the 1900s and now in the 200s. More of earth's resources are being used such as oil etc. And earth's resources are finite. Even Elon Musk mentioned he is not looking forward to a world with depleted resources hence his push to explore further e.g Mars. But we are still relatively early in time so we are all very optimistic. Hoping someday, someone will stumble across the next big thing for humanity to move on to. I guess we are lucky in that respect. A more tribal way of living might not be a bad thing. We would use less of earth's resources. And probably last thousands of years as a result. Maybe towards the end, people rely again on fire for warmth, cooking and some kind of modified agriculture to sustain.

Good question. I am thinking the next 1,000 years to the year 3000. No doubt we expect technology to keep developing, nuclear fusion, AI etc. But what about the resources of the planet. Will we have solar farms everywhere as oil runs out? A world devoid of resources as they have all been depleted over thousands of years. And going "back" to a more tribal way of living - after probably an age of wars amongst people. etc. That's not much to go on. What do you mean?

Aside from evolution, but related to Time, does anyone have an opinion on where our world is heading? My guess is that we are heading towards an "Old World" unless we find something fantastic in the universe first.....

Aside from evolution, but related to Time, does anyone have an opinion on where our world is heading? My guess is that we are heading towards an "Old World" unless we find something fantastic in the universe first.....

A question, how come we don't see much development in living species on earth today? I mean in evolution there was a change from fish to walking fish say..... We don't see that degree of change today, do we?

Thanks for the info. I looked at a tetrapod phylogeny. If we look at lungfish / eusthenopteron and further on. Ichthyos tega / Human, how are these species changing? Are we relying on genetic mutations which happen by chance in a population etc. My hypothesis is that Time has played a guiding role in getting these species to evolve. Yes. Theistic evolution fills a gap. But where does the role of Time come in to play? Where does God fit in relation to Time? Is God real?

Further detail on evolution: My hypothesis looks at what has evolved horse / giraffe horse / elephant These animals are roughly similar (compared to say a bird). I envisage in evolution that there might have been a "base animal" one with 4 legs, a heart, lungs, neck etc But then this "base animal" evolved with a "helping hand" from Time, to be a horse. And with a "helping hand" the base animal evolved to be a giraffe. The contribution of earth is to provide an environment with which these "changing species" can evolve. i.e. even with a "helping hand" it would still take many years to see the diversity of animals we see today. To rely on genetic mutations, natural selection - just doesn't seem feasible. I have looked at a phylogenetic tree which seems to branch earth life into some grouping - vetebrata / chordata, arthropoda, mollusca. Just to give a view of diversity of life in this world: lizard / crocodile fish / whale / seal cat / lion / panther bird / eagle /hawk elephant / grizzly bear / polar bear / tiger / lion

So iin summary, and I know all these threads can be hard to follow, but the way I see it: Time dimension / Time vector encompasses the Big Bang through to earth development Earth's timescale includes the evolution of species including that of people (humans) Is there a longer time vector than currently known by 21st century science? (past) longer vector, history in Time. (disputed) what would a longer time vector encompass? There appears to be no "evidence" of a longer time vector. Therefore it doesn't exist... (future) longer vector, space science (universe exploration) - giving a future for mankind time science (proposed), indicating interaction with a Time domain

Does not affect space. If there is indeed another time vector, different to that of the inextricable continuum, the question is how would one access such a time vector? It is a difficult question to answer, but I hope to answer it one day. I agree, the universe as we know it evolved into the inextricable continuum. But the problem with this is that scientists are only able to design experiments using elements from the "inextricable continuum". ie. It would be hard to imagine, I agree a case where someone could access anything else. Does this make sense?

It is not really a guess. The basic concept is that evolution has occurred on earth. That I agree. But I believe there has also been an evolution in Time. This forms a "backdrop" to life we see today. Unfortunately I don't have proof, and it is unlikely that will ever be possible. You are right, the whole thing is a puzzle. There are some pieces. But takes some patience to see the "big picture".

I am saying, broadly agree that evolution (obviously) did happen but to see so much diversity in Earth from processes like "natural selection" is a bit rich. The timescale everyone has in mind (in general) is from the Big Bang to now (over 13 billion years). I propose a longer timescale, going back. But also going forwards as well. How does this work in practice? Any items on a long timescale may or are likely to act in a continuing manner on the long timescale. To put things in perspective, Earth's evolution (life and the earth itself) would be just a portion of this long timescale. The trick is to provide some sort of empirical evidence of such a concept. How do we go from the first micro-organisms to the variety and diversity of the earth today. All plant species, trees, flowers, grasses etc. Then life species, fish, whales, reptiles, humans etc. ? Sorry I don't have time to read detailed science textbooks - but a quick enlightenment might help..... In a more "speculative" manner I propose "evolution" not just for this current world (Earth), but in Time. So beings evolved, other fundamental components of a human beings makeup. But this is just speculation and would be in the past. But a fascinating concept IF it is true.

Evolution happened earlier in Earth's time. But there may be a bigger timescale.

atoms as to objects. (Current universe / time) X as to Y. (T previous) T as to Z. (T previous) See how in previous "time" things might have been very different even "strange" Ie can you always assume things will always be like atoms?