Alloverthemap

Not to everyone . . . which leads us to another interesting thought. Can the color-blind dream in color. I think the ramifications of this, if they can, are profound.

This was exactly what I was thinking. When I was young I was under the impression that when you dream you dream in black and white. Then I had a dream in color and it was a major surprise. I remember that well. I'm of a generation that didn't get a color TV until I was 7 years old. Of course, movies were in color, but I hadn't seen many of those in the theaters at that age. I do wonder if we could examine dream studies from the pre-color media era if we would find that everyone dreamt in monochrome. And if that's the case, then have we only learned to dream as elaborately as we now can because of the advent of the moving picture?

I agree that dreams are representational, though I can never figure out why certain people to whom I have absolutely no connection to, nor do they have any connection to the subject matter at hand -- Doc Gooden for instance -- pop in for these cameo appearances.

I don't believe there is any deception at work here. My confidence stems from my experience in creating music in my dreams. I have none of this ability in a conscious state, but for many years was convinced that I was composing melodies I'd never heard before while awake. Finally I started recording them vocally immediately after awakening to be sure I wasn't "dreaming". And yes, the melodies when I would play them back the next morning stood up just as I'd perceived they did when recording them following the dream. They were good and they were original. Therefore I do not believe there is a translation error from dream to conscious state when trying to recapture what you believe you've dreamt. Yes. I think there's a distinction here that has a difference. With the possible exception of Mars, your tableaus were mimicking what you are already familiar with. But in dreams something very different is at work. The scenes are largely unprecedented to your experience. I just had one that illustrates my point. In the middle of some fantastical dream, I was all of a sudden playing golf. I'm escorted to the tee box by someone who I've now forgotten, but take to be a new acquaintance. The hole looks very narrow -- treacherous. Then, as though I'm viewing it on TV, I see an aerial shot and learn that the reason it's so narrow is that there is a sloping hillside just off the left of the thin fairway and then water on the right. But no ordinary water. It's an ocean. In vivid detail I can see all the trees and marine canyons that constitute the severe slope dropping hundreds of feet down to the water. And the view is in motion, taking me from tee to green, where we meet up with a golfer surveying a tree right by the side of the green. He is Doc Gooden and he's dubious that he can shape his shot to avoid that tree if he aims for it from the tee and tries to draw it inside of its trunk. I'm observing from the side of the green closest to the cliffs. In the background -- and very distinct -- is that same sloping hillside that provides the claustrophobia from the tee. This perfectly illustrates my mystification and suspicion about dreams. The scene is created from scratch in real time. It has movement where the perspective and scaling are impeccable in their dimensions. And finally, the integrity of the entire construct is upheld by the second view from beside the green, where the hillside is as daunting as it appeared earlier. In short, nothing is sacrificed for expediency in the dream. The entire setting is exactly as it would be if viewed with multiple cameras on television. This is way too much to create in real time, with your eyes closed and your mind striving to do so. I think there's a lot of truth in what you say, but what I'm hung up on is how we stitch these stories together so effortlessly -- both visually and narratively -- instantaneously. But, you make a good point about how -- unlike machines ever will, let's say -- we can home in on precise shadings of meaning and attribute values with exactitude to them. Though I don't find that to be a miracle necessarily, it does speak to your idea that our minds involuntarily process very complicated material and render it instantly -- and accurately -- comprehensible.

Thanks. It does help. I still find it a little curious that we can spontaneously fill in all the background details as our dreams unfold "frame-by-frame" to create a lush tableau all the while propelling the action forward. I mean, these are big production numbers we're talking about. It would take a day and a half to get those sets put up and looking just right on a movie set -- and many hours just to conceive of all the details and proper scaling in the first place? And here we are in our dreams, creating it all on the fly, with everything in place. Ever notice that? The production details are impeccable. If you're climbing a hill on your bike, it's not just you and the road. There is a horizon and everything is filled in on the flanks. All this is mysterious to me -- and a tad suspicious.

I've got a "furthermore" on this subject. I grew up hearing that you can only dream in black and white. Has anyone else heard this? I have a follow-up point if this was once a common conception.

Sorry, I meant not to compare the dreamscape to what we observe around us, but to what we might imagine if we we closed our eyes and plotted something fantastical in our mind. I guarantee you everything would not stay in place as the figuative "frames" proceeded through the projector. But in dreams, the background doesn't get blurred as you move through the dream -- again, it's as though you're watching it unfold frame-by-frame. As far as reporting accurately on dreams goes, I think that might be up to the individual. I care enough about mine not to hype them. If I can't remember a connector or a conclusion . . . well, too bad. But I do believe that which I do recall is what I was experiencing in the dream state.

OK. I think you guys have provided satisfactory clarity about how this odd "you created the answer, yet you don't know the answer" sequence can occur. Another thing I find perplexing is how the "sets" for dreams can be so detailed -- and indeed evolve to follow the action -- and yet be presented in real time. When there's movement in a dream, as experienced by the POV, everything in the frame changes in perfect synchroncity with the observer's movements. As I stress, this happens in real time. This is not possible in a waking state. The foreground of your thought inevitably becomes the focal point and the background pretty much disappears. But in a dream, no favor is given to either. You're experiencing the entire tableau as though watching a movie and quite unlike what a conscious rendering of a moving scene would produce in your imagination. I'm wondering if the dream literature addresses this significant dichotomy.

That's a really good point. The sequence of revelation has been confused by the roles of the people in the dream. If they had been reversed, then there would be no sense of pre-cognition whatsoever. Just one character asking for an explanation of an event, with the other providing it. What confuses the issue, as I stated originally, is that ostensibly the POV in the dream and the "scripter" of the dream are one in the same. But that shouldn't be a given, I suppose. And if it's not, it does explain why I experience this phenomenon with some frequency. Thanks for taking the time to think about it and provide an excellent answer.

i apologize if I'm posting in the wrong forum, but I signed up just a matter of moments ago and didn't see an obvious candidate to post this in. What I'm going to describe, I have to believe, is commonplace. Yet I've never heard -- or sought -- an answer for it. Perhaps others can provide insight. This concerns what I describe in the title as instant pre-cognition while in a dream state. I'll give you the example which sparked my participation here. It occurred ten minutes ago at the end of a dream, so I have no doubt that I'm reporting it as I experienced it. First off, I was in the show "Game of Thrones" which was enormously exciting. It was a longish, multi-set dream, but here's how it concluded. I was in a barren room with another character from the show (likely the one portrayed by Pete Dinklage, as I do recall him being by my side for some of the dream). All of a sudden a pile of dirt pours out of the walls and onto the floor. I ask, "Where is all that dirt coming from?" He replies, "That's not dirt. That's sawdust from all the bullet holes those guns are sending into the side of the building." I have "a-ha!" moments like this frequently in dreams, where, I as the protagonist, experience something I can't explain, only for the meaning of the event to be explained to me moments later by an accompanying character. Is this not "pre-cognition." I mean, how could I not know what was happening since my mind is creating the action of the dream? When I get the explanation from that second character, I always have an emotional reaction in my dream -- as though a great revelation has been shared with me. I realize I'm having a hard time here making a good analogy between this phenomenon and pre-cognition, but I feel there is a common dynamic. But more than that, I'm really curious whether the dynamic I'm describing is a common curiosity of dreams and what explanations might account for it. Thanks for taking the time to read this. If you have a suggestion for a better place to post it (assuming this was the wrong choice) please don't hesitate to suggest it.