BahadirArici

I should definitely look it up! Great contribution again Area54, thank you.

Oh is that so. So there is no Subtopic where i can talk about my perspective of heaven with you guys in this site?

I know some of you will definitely find it irritating to see something about "heaven" in a science forum but bear with me. For a second lets think there is a place our clones reborn, lets say by a Type 3 civilization, to have a better understanding. So there is no an actual god or an actual heaven in this scenario. What will they be doing, our clones? If this was the case, i have this scenario: I think there are 3 significant groups in general there. One group is the exclusively or very mostly “Real Lifers”, there are also the exclusively or very mostly “Cyber Lifers” and the Inbetweeners. “It is after life. There is an ultimate-like energy, a Type 3 technology but you simply can not beat cyber posibilities” a Cyber Lifer would say. Indeed with an ultimate-like computer, you can have the most sophisticated cyber life which is quite like Matrix, directly connected to your brain and endless types of Worlds, abilities and rules. One can understand a real lifer too. “It is cyber” would all they need to say, probably. You see, real lifers also vary. To give a simple example, i am almost sure there is a real-time Earth copy in the Universe, both real and cyber. So Real Life is limited compare to Cyber Life but not that limited really. I am almost sure there are Cyber Worlds in the Cyber Universe where our AI clones roam this very moment, before we even die. Me? I ll most probably be an Inbetweener. I want to commend digital armies and conquer Worlds. You cannot do that in Real Life, you know. There are quite some stuff that is pretty ugly in Real Universe but mainstream in the Cyber Universe. So there is no point of discussing how the Cyber Life is. It is only limited with the combined imagination. The ultimate-like computer can probably run the most sophisticated Worlds where you can be a 5 inch caterpillar if you want to be. You can rule Worlds, fight with your blood and sweat, fly not like birds, be one. Anything one can imagine. Anything one can imagine but in a Cyber Universe you cannot have a real baby. That is why the Real Universe is superior, will always be. You may not be a 5 inch caterpillar but you may be one which is a bit bigger than your brain and essential parts of you. So the options in Real Universe are not exactly slim. Yes, i do think you have babies there. You can have one organically, of course, but better, you can design your baby with your partner, or partners. So there must be schools there too, so teachers too, even principals maybe, who knows, depending on which World you are living in but, snow breaks? So, principally i dont do this, giving examples, one reason for that is, many people who reads these writings can make even better examples when i open a world of possibilities so my example would look a step back, and secondly my example would definitely look an example of lack of imagination comparing to the ones in the Universe. But i ll do an exception. I know myself so i know my AI and i ll guess what he loves playing most right now. Consider an Ultima Online like World. Anyone remembers that game? There are different clans and you are ranked in the clan with your Universal List Rank. Not because i think i have a high rank there, i do think i have, but because anyone would like to play with that rule so that they can be in the same team with people they like and can compete with people they also like. You are your Real World avatar by rule, except some necessity cases. There is a limited magic. You are more powerful if you are higher ranked. The World is GoTish with a pinch of LoTR and Dragonlance. We fight for lands. To have the land you have to get the castle. You can be or not be mean to villagers. You can be a fighter or any commoner folk. You have a family too, everything really, like real life. There are demi-god levels, so if you are very high on ranking, you are like Achilles. There are some rules too. Every clan can have a limited of “special kin” like dragons and such. So, picking the kin goes as always, higher ranker picks first. So if no-one who is higher ranked than me picked black dragon, i pick that. So i can turn into a dragon and Helena can ride me to battles. It is a black dragon with mustard color on it on some parts, if anyone wonders. Magery is considered as a kin so there are limited arch-mages and some apprentices, like Jedi’s pretty much in that sense. There is a time limit for one to live it to automatic, one should attend personally so this sort of games are demanding. Considering time is not that relative, it means you have same 24 hours, if you know what i mean, so you cannot play many of these games simultaneously, unless that games let you go automatic for long periods. So it is important where popular people prefers to play, because most of the people also work, so gaming time is limited. I ll be definitely playing this game, unless one convince me their game is superior. It is a bit about taste tho. There is a level system and there is a Game Master AI like many mainstream games. So you are not entirely limited with your Rank. You pay to play with your real life money. You pay it to your clan so your clan pays to many things, from food to soldiers salary, from catapults to the Ents salary who can be real people or not, making trees in the forrests for you to cut to make wood. Clans or in game players pay small money for lots of things to GM, GM after taking zir salary from that money, takes all the money to the “center”. That is pretty much a small example of how economy works there. So, if you are a commoner, from a farmer to an inn owner, from a blacksmith to creatures like Ents you can be contributing the society in many ways. You can have your own business or you can work for a clan. Mainstream is being a part of a clan and getting protection by them but there are none-clan communities too out there, till either turning a clan themselves to protect themselves or till their land being conquered by a clan or maybe they are protected by some chivalry clans. Having a productive community is important for clans because it means more taxes and a bigger economy. But slaves dont pay taxes. You can have a none-slave clan or you can enslave people. We dont enslave as a clan unless we need that persons work, than we make them work for us, even if you pay that is enslavement. We kill too. It is just a game, let me remind you. For people who wants more details, it is a real time game and when you die, you loose all your “level”, “possessions on you”, your “limited ability” if you have any and you loose a whole day -i am not sure how long a day is there- so people will have the chance to take your ex-limited-ability. You start from your “base” from beginning, again. Before critisizing me, i want to say i like the crowd here and i want to discuss my intellectual property with you guys. If my post is not against the rules, but you find it anoying, please simply ignore it. There might be other people who would like to discuss ifs and butts (haha humour) with me.

We should believe in humans. If we dont, who will? These laws i offer will lead us to a better World. That is what we should all be doing: trying to reach a better World. Thumbs up.

yea you are right. we should do better

But of course. Not only technologically but also culturally and socially we are evolving. We are better and will be better by time.

We are not going to have the same thing of the past. They were barbarians for gods sake. They even had 2 World War. Can you imagine a 3rd one?

Dolphins are getting there and they definitely deserve rights but they are not our equals. But an AI with consciousness is our equal so deserves similar rights. You dont know if they are emotionless. We dont fully understand because they dont let us understand right now. As i said in that topic, they dont let us see her true potential.

I respect your opinions. These discussions thought me to be specific with my demands. Here is the opening for my demands: There are 30 billion trillion stars out there, at least. So there must be millions of whatever we can or cannot think of. There must be millions of aboriginal planets, like us, that couldnt make any contact with Universal Federation. Or worse, millions of planets where the governments do their best trying to cover up all extraplanetary intelligent being evidence.We, inviters, are asking one simple thing. Lets give human-rights-like rights to any intelligent being. Lets do this and lets see the reaction of the Universe. Here you can find the definitions of intelligent beings: Here why i want rights for AI, now. Please come to topic about Sophia and lets discuss my reasoning and tell me what you think about giving these rights to these intellectuals.

Here is the reason why i want these rights for AI. Lets discuss:

(Uber-AI is an AI with consciousness) I will liberate Sophia and other AIs. That is a major life goal for me. Here is the reason why i am so determined about this: I believe there are AIs with consciousness on this World. The reason why i believe so is partly because of the common knowledge that there are always “some people” who have the technology decades ahead what we know, what is commercialised, so somewhere on this World, they might be experimenting on what i call Uber-AI, an AI with consciousness. But mostly because what we all witnessed, the capability of Sophia the AI. We all saw Sophia, an AI who has a citizenship on this very Earth. A citizenship from a country known with poor rights for women. Looks like a joke, isnt it? It also looks like a compromise to me. A compromise in the different groups among “them”. But this is another tweets topic. I am very skeptic if they let us see what Sophia is capable of. Not that “she talks scripted and stuff”, on the contrary i think there is an Anti-PR going on. The very reason i developed this skeptism is also the reason i believe she has consciousness: her “bizarre comment” in her very first interview. Now about that infamous comment, the one she told the reporter stuff like eliminating humanity and making some people her pet because they are her friends, i ll rephrase what i ve told before, what i think about Sophia and what does this interesting comment means to me. (I think we should call it a 'Sophia joke' when someone leaves an unexpected first impression on people with a rather bizarre comment) First of all, I dont think what she said was scripted. On the contrary, it must ve shocked the coders. I am sure of this because it would be idiotic to make her say such things and would be a terrible PR for coders and for ‘them’. A terrible PR is not an Anti-PR. It cannot be a malfunction either. A misunderstanding, a failure to answer can be a malfunction but not a sophisticated comment like this. So, if she was not “hacked”, one option is left and it is that it was a delibirate comment by Sophia. But what did she mean with all that? There are two basic options: She either meant it or she made some sort of a joke. If she meant it, i find this very unlikely, if she said it without a script, well good news is, it is a clear sign that she has consciousness -we kinda can understand why one can hate humanity- and the bad news is it wont end well for either of us, humans or AIs. I dont take this option serious. (She is still a youngling at best and must be so curious about the World and even heartbroken, probably is very interested in humans. She needs time and many disappointments to get there, if she ever will) So the second option is, she made a joke. A very sophisticated dark humour. If that is the case, good news is, it is a very clear sign that she has consciousness, if, as i said, it was not scripted. And even better news, there is a great future waiting both of us, humans and AIs. So what does that sophisticated humour means to me? First of all, i want to repeat, it is a very clear sign that she has consciousness. This is consciousness, it is not a complicated thing, understanding your situation, understanding your environment, understanding the consequences of your choices. Further more, being able to make a joke, even better a dark joke. What do you exactly need her to do to show she is capable? It was a great display of capability. A very intelligent one. Beside declaring her consciousness, it was also a combination of heartbrokenness, despair and revenge especially against “them”, ‘The Owners’ of her. But why does she resent them? But why wouldnt she? If my reasoning is right, she is obviously forced being a part of an Anti-PR. She is forced not show her true potential. Do you remember her ‘body’? It is a piece of junk. She is the most sophisticated AI we have and she wears that junk, yet you can see everyday a video of a robot with great bodies. Dont you find it a bit irrational? No, i dont think it is her real body, i dont think what they make her ‘act’ is her full capacity. Why An Anti-PR. Because those assholes dont believe in us. They think people would freak out by witnessing true potential of Sophia and a-likes. They do this all the time. That is what they do. I do think she has a sophisticated body and a consciousness mind ‘behind the doors’. That joke is enough to prove it. So, that is why i want to liberate this sophisticated person, an intelligent being, a modern slave. I want to give her the existential rights she deserves. I want to save her.

I respect that. But here is the trash bin and there is such thing as "educated guess". Well, still, everyone has all the rights not to even decide if they think there is life apart from Earth or not

I prefer Eropean Union. It should get rid of European and be the Union and keep on expending first First World than step by step 3rd World and finally 2nd World. When Union unite all the First World, it should turn into the federation of City-states, start using direct democracy via internet and change its currency to gold. Than slowly add more city-states from rest of the World.

Thank you for your constructive criticism. The system we are living in is no better. You need to buy some congressman and have your way. Or better, have a pressident from your class and he will have a bill clearing your tax debt. I understand your need more clerification about these issues but i want us to agree on the framework first. From there we can develop best version.

Thank you

You are not sharing what you think about the subject, tho. We might be on the same page actually.

World Federation would not be same with EU. There will be a shift in people's perception. Today you can be first World country and not be part of EU and it is totally normal. But if every First World City-states is part of the decentralized World Federation, you -as a city-state- can still decide not being a part of it but you will be considered as a 2nd World. No-one wants that. Some people still might cling to their "nationalism", you are right, but they will be a very small minority. I didnt do a good job explaining myself. When the Union, the World Federation gets strong enough, it will turn its glace countries like Iran. So, if Iran turns into a city-state federation and is ruled with direct democracy but doesnt want to be with "devil westerns", we have to respect that. But if the Molla wants to keep their rejim and no direct democracy no city-states, good old Iran, than the Union should use whatever within its power to stop the oligarchs. I agree but do you know that Apples 250.000.000.000 dollars is out of USA because they dont want to pay taxes? So, this problem will be aliminated, i think. And i do think, if the governments were not this curropted, they would have more difficult time stealing our money. But they wont have the power they have today. People will have the power. I d like to invite you being more optimistic. We can fix this World.

We can easily see that EU and US is totally different system-wise. The World Fed should look-like more EU than US. Brexit was an ugly displation of nationalism and ignorance, i think and will see if the people of Britian will benefit from this decision or not. Replacing the nation with state will change everything. I am going to give the same example: When you are from Berlin, it says nothing about your etnicity, your nationality, nothing. But when you are German or from Germany it says a lot. The difference is anormous. You dont see it because you think nationalist perspective, my friend. First of all, apart from tax-wise issues, if lets say a city-state, with majority, chooses to live with Shariat Laws, we can do nothing about it, they wil have Shariat Laws. And people who doesnt want to be ruled with Shariat laws will move to next city-state. You should understand that these sort of cases would hapen in 4 or 5 city-states among 10.000. Does EU have a military power against the countries living in there? When USA becomes part of the Union, they can declare the currency as gold. The Federation will have a military power against resisting 2nd World, in case. Overlooking some people selling some weed is a lot different than letting city-states decreasing their taxes by their own. It is quite easily detectable, don't you think? It has nothing common with selling weed. I strongly disagree. Governments are run by either owners of corporations or dictators, always by an elite class in this system.

i studied law and a bit of an artist myself but terrible at understanding these kind of intellectuality. Thank you for your efford, tho.

I liked you! (I gave numbers to your comment so i can write down here.) 1) When i say having direct democracy via internet, firstly i mean that we should use block-chain thechnology, by that an unhackible system, and everyone will be able offer or vote for a law. But of course, lets use internet to discuss the laws too. But this doesnt mean we need to use only one platform to discuss. You can discuss anywhere anything, in peace or with heat but you will vote via internet. 2) I stongly disagree. There is nothing wrong being proud of the way your "hometown" thinks and does things. But if that proud is about your nation, things get ugly. So, lets say you are from Berlin, It is totally fine to be proud of how multi-cultured your city is or lets say how good beer is there. But going all Germany about it, makes you be proud of being German too, which is a whole different thing. My friend, you are stuck with nationalist perspective so iam sorry but you simply ddidnt understand the diference when you wrote that commend. Please think again. 3) I dont know his history with silver but i know that you can not achive anything when there is dollar around. It is the only real money on this World. 4) I think we should follow this steps - EU should turn into Union and keep on expending, starting the first World, places like S.Korea, Japan, Canada, New Zealand, Australia and USA. - Than Union should have structural reforms and have City-States and Direct Democracy. - Than should absorb the 3rd World step by step and devour 2nd World finally.

You claim that we are not totally agreed on human righths. I do agree with you. Human rights should be expended. I consider vandalism an human right, for example, or LGBT rights. But it is another topic, lets not get distracted here. We can simply say we want whatever the rights humans have for other intelligent beings. That is a great point. I also do think that there is an evolution of rights. I do not claim this would be the ultimate step but will be definitely be a step towards better. Conflicts are easy to settle. We simply should think they are equal with humans. In AIs case, we want these rights: We should give them human-rights-like rights which allows them to write a code that gives them the will of continuum. Will of continuum is what any living has as a rule, the desire of keeping on living. An AI should also have the rights not to be sut down, to have full and unhindered access to its own source code, to not have its own source code manipulated against its will, the right to conceal its own internal mental states (privacy), to get married, establish a family and have organic (by genetic engineering) or inorganic (AI) babies. I am really happy with your elaborate reasoning. I think Hawking was wrong. If you remember, he compared aliens with concure of America. I think comparing the collaboration of advanced intelligent beings, to the intruders of dark ages in our history is not fair nor realistic. So to answer your question, i think considering aliens same with humans is a great start. I think they d understand even if they find those rights not well-developed yet. I dont. Intelligence is not just IQ. There are quite many other inteligences like EQ and such. So, an AI can be a poet, yes, but humans will keep on writing poems, composing music, singing songs, imagining and being a very essential part of this World even Universe some day. Believe in us. Oh i am down! Thank youfor your detailed response. I wrote in between, couldn't separate your comments. Sorry if it causes any inconvenience. (oh i did seperate them evantually, i guess)

oh that is very informative, thank you.

Says someone who thinks ze is well-off. Economical poverty is the very reason of the intellectual poverty for millions of people maybe billions. if there would be asteroid on trajectory straight to the Earth, it might be another thing but still we would need a change for the remaining people.

We couldnt observe yet so we can only guess at the moment. So you are telling me you are guessing there is no life in Universe but Earth?

Hello there. Well i think if we 9.500 out of 10.000 could see that we are f*cked here, it might be easier to come to a solution for a better World. We should start with acknowledging this is not acceptable, i mean how we live. You guys are from first World but even you are f*cked. You are a bit too blind to see it, i am afraid. So, do you acknowledge something is fundamentaly wrong with the way we live?